Like I said, Ontario might have lots of room but our hospitals are full. 77.7% of Ontario's population is fully vaccinated. Maybe that accounts for why your hospitals are empty. Wish Ontario was closer. We could ship you over a bunch of our covids.
How stupid is this going to get?
- Thread starter Dale124
- Start date
The numbers do not lie; the majority of Covid-19 cases, hospitalizations and deaths are among the unvaccinated in Canada.
Cases 88.1% unvaccinated (1.5% in fully vaccinated)
Hospitalizations 84.5% (1.4% fully vaccinated)
Deaths 81.5% (2% fully vaccinated)
Not sure what age has to do with anything besides those who are older and/or with comorbidities are higher risk, but we are now seeing it hitting the younger age group as well. Age is irrelevant, everyone deserves to live regardless of age.
Individuals who think this is fake news and propaganda, and that protesting in front of hospitals is ethical I have zero time or patience for.
Cases 88.1% unvaccinated (1.5% in fully vaccinated)
Hospitalizations 84.5% (1.4% fully vaccinated)
Deaths 81.5% (2% fully vaccinated)
Not sure what age has to do with anything besides those who are older and/or with comorbidities are higher risk, but we are now seeing it hitting the younger age group as well. Age is irrelevant, everyone deserves to live regardless of age.
Individuals who think this is fake news and propaganda, and that protesting in front of hospitals is ethical I have zero time or patience for.
Agree 100%. Anybody not accepting shots are not good citizens and are inconsiderate!
LE BARON
Power User
Watch CTV news at 11. Toronto and Peel Region alone have 300+ new cases each a day. 98% of them are unvaxed. And most are against wearing a mask in public.
Always wonder how someone compare something like smoking to a contagious disease. Whats the relevance? Smoking addiction is not contagious in itself. The harmful part of smoking IS legislated and brought into law to protect others from it. If a smoker gets lung cancer he's not contagious and doesn't endanger medical staff on his way through the system, hospitals and treatment centers. As a society we've taken steps to ban the marketing of tobacco so as not to influence children as much. Experimenting with home remedies or medication not intended to treat a specific condition has nothing to do with smokers but I guess we grasp at what ever we can to make a point. FDA (Sept 3, 2021) "For humans, ivermectin tablets are approved at very specific doses to treat some parasitic worms, and there are topical (on the skin) formulations for head lice and skin conditions like rosacea." Ever ask who started the Ivermectin craze? Could it be for profit? Just asking. I love my Corvette, I came here to see whats new and don't care about Ivermectin much. Just hate when someone uses something unrelated to attempt a point.
LE BARON
Power User
Makes one wonder what their logic is at times.
One thing for sure is that CV-19 will be more serious in the un-vaxed until such time as it has eliminated them as a source for transmission at which time we will hear less from them as there will be less of them. I believe the popular expression is that it will "burn" through them until such time as there are very few left to infect.
Then we will have another variant which more than most likely will also be more prevalent in the un-vaxed. Next variant is the "MU" which is apparently much more transmissible as well as more serious.
Moderna is working on a combination flu/CV-19 booster shot. Personal opinion is that is what the future will be as both the flu and CV-19 will mutate every year.
Best case is that it will be something we will have to live with and hopefully not die of. IMHO
LE BARON
Power User
Pfizer received no govt monies.
gone
Power User
As Rruuff Day mentions, our hospitals in Alberta tell a vastly different story. I've a doctor in the family who's working in the hospitals in Edmonton now. He's recently become "totally fed up" and is now more vocal to those he encounters in the hospitals that aren't vaccinated...telling them there's no excuse for a mostly preventible disease. He describes ICU's that are full of COVID patients where more than 90% of them have no vaccinations and the patients are typically age 20 to 40. They are draining our healthcare resources, bumping spots for other patients and causing surgeries to be cancelled. I'm hearing of people (for example) on a wait list for a replacement hip and after waiting 6 months...they're now bumped and told it will likely be another 6 months (minimum). These people are limping around in ++pain and can't get relief. Then expand that for knee and other surgeries. Not fun for those people.
But hey, that's SOMEONE ELSE so why worry about THEM.
And after all, people who smoke and consume drugs/alcohol to excess...they drain our healthcare system too. And none of them are deprived of their freedom to choose to follow that behaviour. [Oh wait, NONE of them can infect others with their "disease" and keep it alive to morph into other variants...but I digress.]
So yes, let's focus on "ME", reject "modern medicine" (that for the most part eradicated measles, polio, etc.), point to that same science/medicine as being incompetent when it comes to COVID-19 since it should be 100% all-knowing in the face of a new disease and when it doesn't meet a standard of perfection and stumbles from time to time, let's not be patient but rather quickly reject it as "junk science"...and turn to other tried and true remedies that are "natural" or otherwise are somehow known to work (even though they've never been tried before for this new disease) or let's listen to "experts" who have the true "scientifically proven" statistics and KNOW it's all a government conspiracy to deprive people of their freedoms, after all the world IS truly flat and the photos purportedly taken from space of our planet are entirely fabricated, as are most other things that our government tells us...
Tell that to the doctor in my family who sees what's really happening in our hospitals and doesn't need anyone (government trusting or anti-government) to tell him what's going on, since he's living with it every day. My 2 cents.
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Not a clue what the connection is to my post, never mentioned Pfizer, Moderna, J&J or any other covid vaccine manufacturer. Simply stated that without President Trump you would not have a vaccine to argue about.
Some seem to misunderstand the connection to smoking. The issue in Alberta appears to be the pressure on the system by the unvaccinated population. There are statements being made that the healthcare system should not support them and that as a result of their poor decision making (not getting vaccinated) they should either be rejected by the system (to free up ICU spaces) or they should be required to pay an additional "fee" for their healthcare. Regardless of whether they are capable of infecting others is not the concern in this specific argument. The concern is that someone's definition of bad behavior may and could have you removed from the healthcare system. Will we use that same argument against smokers (after all you are taking up much needed space in ICU), people who eat fast food, sky divers, motorcyclists, fast drivers, etc...?
The infectious nature of Covid is a smokescreen/red herring in this particular debate. The issue is about public healthcare and the seeming desire to begin down the slippery slope of determining who receives healthcare and whether you should be booted from the system for a personal choice. If unvaccinated persons are removed from the system, then it is only a matter of time before the accountants at our respective health institutions begin to realize that restricting access to a whole litany of personal choice health care issues could be a financial Godsend to the system.
Be careful what you wish for ....
FYI I am a three doser....
The infectious nature of Covid is a smokescreen/red herring in this particular debate. The issue is about public healthcare and the seeming desire to begin down the slippery slope of determining who receives healthcare and whether you should be booted from the system for a personal choice. If unvaccinated persons are removed from the system, then it is only a matter of time before the accountants at our respective health institutions begin to realize that restricting access to a whole litany of personal choice health care issues could be a financial Godsend to the system.
Be careful what you wish for ....
FYI I am a three doser....
LE BARON
Power User
Precisely Black! But you did mention that without DT there would be no vaccine.
Pfizer did not need Trump's warp speed to develop their mRNA vaccine. Whether or not the other manufacturers did use govt money I am unaware of. Lauding Trump is a bit far stretch when in Jan and Feb of 2019 he was saying everything was under control and the virus would disappear. No one seems to be able to say he was wrong.
LE BARON
Power User
Good rant Rruuff.
We are going to have to up the anty though. No more pennies in Canada.
The saying will have to be "in for a nickel, in for a dime"
No more two cents worth or "a penny for your thoughts"
Trump did ZERO for Covid and vaccines except deny it and subsequently kill people . Any suggestion otherwise is misinformation and ignorance.
gone
Power User
I beg to differ. While I see your point (the potential slippery slope of penalizing non-vaxxers leading to penalizing smokers) I can't see penalizing smokers by depriving them of healthcare or surcharging them:
-smoking is too entrenched in our society
-governments are pursuing other methods to deal with smoking such as lawsuits against the manufacturers and increasing taxes on cigarettes and other forms of tobacco
-we have a universal health-care system which is similarly entrenched in our Canadian society so it's very unlikely people will be deprived of access to same, including smokers and even the anti-vaxxers.
However, I suspect we may eventually mandate vaccinations for "the common good" solely because COVID and especially its Delta variant, is so easily transmitted. So I don't see that COVID characteristic as a "red herring" since COVID is easily spread and can have deadly consequences which are far more "here and now" compared to things like smoking which is known to cause health issues but doesn't have the potential for "imminent death" like COVID...plus the ability of COVID to mutate into something potentially more resistant to any vaccine, is of concern and justifies eradicating it like any other past serious diseases like smallpox: smallpox having been eliminated in the late '70's due to worldwide vaccinations. Those same COVID characteristics will likely also lead Canada to follow other countries and issue "vaccine passports" requiring vaccinations for travel and other activities and that may be the most effective method of encouraging vaccinations (before mandating same) amongst people who want to join mainstream society and all its activities.
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Well it is good to have the head of Pfizer on with along with Biden's Press Secretary to offer those of us with nothing but misinformation and ignorance clarification on the subject.
LE BARON
Power User
Didn't hear anyone in DT camp saying that Pfizer CEO was lying
If you want to believe the vaccine doesn't have any harmful effects, that's your right but don't make statements that you can't back up:
Selected Adverse Events Reported after COVID-19 Vaccination
Rare instances of adverse events following COVID-19 vaccinations have been reported to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System.
www.cdc.gov
The situation is anything but simple. You spun the roulette wheel just like every one else who has had the shot, and everyone else who has had covid. Some came up unlucky.
The issue now has nothing to do with vaccines and what they do or don't do. It's about choice, the choice that has been taken away from us. I am not vaccinated, and as long as any form for government holds a gun to my head, I will NEVER get the shot. I don't fear either covid or the vaccine as I am in the low risk category. I do fear the erosion of our right to determine what goes into our bodies.
Most people who are vaccinated CHOSE to do so. If the vaccine is so great, then convince people, don't threaten them as it just takes away credibility.
Orwell once wrote "Right thinking will be rewarded, wrong thinking punished". Let us not go down that road.
LE BARON
Power User