Solar power for roof tops

[DDHRocks]

A couple points... though I almost don't want to bring this thread back to the topic. The issue with hydrogen is that it's hard to store, the molecules are so small, it takes thick walled storage. Plus you need to install an entirely new distribution system. At least with EV's you have power to the station. At most you need to run some new lines. On the idea of EV's being an issue for charging, it's not as bad as it seems. Most EV's are charging at night when there is relatively little charge requirements, most can be programmed to charge on non-peak hours. There is also the benefit that some EV's, like the Ford Lightning, can actually run your house for a while when there is a power outage. It's also easier to install new capacity for EV's as you just need to beef up the existing infrastructure. One issue with wind and solar is that everyone wants the windmills/solar farms FAR AWAY, which means building power lines to them, which is expensive.

Anyway! That helmet shot is crazy. I'm surprised they didn't stop the game when they realized helmets and protective gear might shatter.

 

[Murray20c8]

One issue with wind and solar is that everyone wants the windmills/solar farms FAR AWAY, which means building power lines to them, which is expensive.

Not sure why solar needs to be far away, but I also wonder why we don't see EV roofs made from solar panels. It can partially charge your car while at work

 

[DDHRocks]

Not sure why solar needs to be far away, but I also wonder why we don't see EV roofs made from solar panels. It can partially charge your car while at work

The primary problem with rooftop EV is that it's more cost for developers up front and developers are the cheapest people around. Most buyers don't want the decision on rooftop solar taken out of their hands. Add around $30k (May be less now that was probably 5 years ago) to the price of a house, even if it saves you money in 10 years. The developer doesn't see that savings.

Part of the issue for large solar is that you need a lot of acres. Land is valuable. So developers try to find the cheapest land possible. The cheapest land is the farthest away from cities. That's why offshore wind is so tempting, no-one is charging for some ocean space.

 

[Murray20c8]

Part of the issue for large solar is that you need a lot of acres. Land is valuable. So developers try to find the cheapest land possible. The cheapest land is the farthest away from cities. That's why offshore wind is so tempting, no-one is charging for some ocean space.

Or the tops of people's houses! LOL!
You see so many now. Most aren't connected to the grid, but if they were perhaps there'd be less whining about power usage.

 

[muddy]

I have solar panels on my roof and I am connected to the grid. The average house in Alberta uses about 9500Kwh of electricity per year and I produced just over 9700Kwh of electricity.
So you can do the math and decide ......................

 

[1st Vette]

I have solar panels on my roof and I am connected to the grid. The average house in Alberta uses about 9500Kwh of electricity per year and I produced just over 9700Kwh of electricity.
So you can do the math and decide ......................

If you don’t mind me asking what are your system specs and total installation costs? Number and size of panels and inverter/ micro inverters . And do you get paid for back feed to the grid. Thanks.

 

[Murray20c8]

I have solar panels on my roof and I am connected to the grid. The average house in Alberta uses about 9500Kwh of electricity per year and I produced just over 9700Kwh of electricity.
So you can do the math and decide ......................

Did you have to jump through hoops to get it connected? In Ontario it's not too easy AFAIK. My friend investigated, but I don't remember the specifics.

 

[muddy]

If you don’t mind me asking what are your system specs and total installation costs? Number and size of panels and inverter/ micro inverters . And do you get paid for back feed to the grid. Thanks.

I will have to dig up some of the specs. 7.92 kw

 

[muddy]

Did you have to jump through hoops to get it connected? In Ontario it's not too easy AFAIK. My friend investigated, but I don't remember the specifics.

Not really. The installation company did most of the jumping. Had to have Energuy do a home inspection and I had to register with the "Green" folks with Federal gov't. Got a $5000 rebate. So my cost was around 10 grand

 

[muddy]

If you don’t mind me asking what are your system specs and total installation costs? Number and size of panels and inverter/ micro inverters . And do you get paid for back feed to the grid. Thanks.

The electrical company installs a new meter which documents how much you use and put back on the grid. It is all documented on the electric bill

 

[1st Vette]

The electrical company installs a new meter which documents how much you use and put back on the grid. It is all documented on the electric bill

Ok .

 

[1st Vette]

I will have to dig up some of the specs. 7.92 kw

Thanks. I was just curious having installed a number of systems of varying sizes over the years but none in the last five or so. I have a pretty good idea of your material cost it’s the labour that’s variable for a variety of reasons. Looks like they used micro inverters which is good. 8 kw is plenty for most residential applications. What do you think your break even time will be? I’m not sure what your kwh charge is. All I know is it’s less than our 36 cents per kWh .

 

[1st Vette]

Did you have to jump through hoops to get it connected? In Ontario it's not too easy AFAIK. My friend investigated, but I don't remember the specifics.

Every kwh you produce is one they don’t sell you.

 

[Murray20c8]

Every kwh you produce is one they don’t sell you.

DUH! LOL

 

[1st Vette]

DUH! LOL

Well of course, it’s stating the obvious but it is the main reason why so many supply authorities/ energy sellers, are against it. Some of them quite openly. The argument you will hear from them most often is that as renewable energy production by individuals scales up the cost to those who don’t will have to rise . Have to keep the shareholders happy. In a sense though they do have a point as distribution infrastructure installation and maintenance costs are not insignificant. Bit of a catch 22 when it comes to “ greening “ the grid.

 

[muddy]

Thanks. I was just curious having installed a number of systems of varying sizes over the years but none in the last five or so. I have a pretty good idea of your material cost it’s the labour that’s variable for a variety of reasons. Looks like they used micro inverters which is good. 8 kw is plenty for most residential applications. What do you think your break even time will be? I’m not sure what your kwh charge is. All I know is it’s less than our 36 cents per kWh .

I believe the break even is about 10 years. They sort of handcuff you on how much you can produce. If I remember correctly it is about 80-90% of your previous year electrical usage. A person just can't load up his entire roof with panels. There are some very small efficient wind turbines out there right now but not sure if electrical companies will go for that yet. Looking at Flower Turbines right now.

 

[1st Vette]

I believe the break even is about 10 years. They sort of handcuff you on how much you can produce. If I remember correctly it is about 80-90% of your previous year electrical usage. A person just can't load up his entire roof with panels. There are some very small efficient wind turbines out there right now but not sure if electrical companies will go for that yet. Looking at Flower Turbines right now.

Break even sounds right. Productive life span of the panels baring big hailstorms should be close to 20 yrs . Not a bad idea to cover them if one is forecast, yes a pain, but it’s like insurance . Maybe worth it if you’re able to do it yourself and are the cautious type. Replacement is pricey as you know. You can install all the panels you want, the issue is the Supply Authority will only allow a finite amount of “ feed in tariff “ payment. Use the excess to heat your pool or charge your EV , or run grow lights to stock your greenhouse etc . The output from wind is indistinguishable from solar, all goes into the same pot so to speak.
Good on you for doing this and more people who can afford it should as it’s good for the environment and a very interesting learning experience. Perhaps a better thing to do with further expenditure would be to look at a storage solution as lithium ion battery storage has come way down depending on your access to reasonable pricing. Unlike the lead acid or gel storage batteries you can use 95% of their capacity as opposed to maybe 50% . Then when the grid crashes you’re not in the dark at night.

 

[DDHRocks]

I love rooftop solar! I think it should be standard on all new builds, even in Canada where we don't quite get the same bang for the buck.

Thanks for the cost, I've been considering it. Was that a certain amount of battery storage you were required to install? Where did you install it? I've seen people set up a small shed for the battery storage in the yard.

 

[DDHRocks]

Well of course, it’s stating the obvious but it is the main reason why so many supply authorities/ energy sellers, are against it. Some of them quite openly. The argument you will hear from them most often is that as renewable energy production by individuals scales up the cost to those who don’t will have to rise . Have to keep the shareholders happy. In a sense though they do have a point as distribution infrastructure installation and maintenance costs are not insignificant. Bit of a catch 22 when it comes to “ greening “ the grid.

That's the main challenge with wind and solar are intermittency. You end up supporting the rise and fall of that rooftop solar with natural gas plants that can quickly ramp up and down and load balance. Large scale storage is expensive. One benefit of solar is that it's pumping power into the grid when the draw is highest. Power usage drops a lot at night.

Nuclear is much better for carbon free baseload power if you're looking to green a whole grid.

 

[1st Vette]

I love rooftop solar! I think it should be standard on all new builds, even in Canada where we don't quite get the same bang for the buck.

Thanks for the cost, I've been considering it. Was that a certain amount of battery storage you were required to install? Where did you install it? I've seen people set up a small shed for the battery storage in the yard.

Get back to you tomorrow.