Tourmax

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Well, you've probably seen my "sunny days" thread if you frequent the C4 forum.

The Vette has needed lots of work to get it up to snuff and it rides wonderfully now. The wife and I are really enjoying taking it on little day trips here and there. I honestly am enjoying the car and that's saying something as I'm a bleed "Ford Blue" guy and have a pretty deep seated dislike of anything the General has ever made. Very few GM products I've ever owned have been good to me. IE: breaking down, blowing up or just generally falling apart because of poor designs. I was fighting a pretty strong urge to walk away from the Vette when we were looking at buying it. But the Vette seems to be an exception to my general GM streak of "bad luck". After I fixed all the P.O. bodges that is.

But I'm coming up on a month of ownership and I find myself already thinking about ripping it apart. I'm fighting the urge, but the problem is I'm a gear head from decades back and it isn't long before I'm changing or altering something on a vehicle. Heck, I don't think is was much more than a couple months before I was tearing my new F-150 Lariat apart to add adaptive cruise, lane keeping and "parallel park". Mostly just because i could.....:Woot:

Now the Vette has developed a bad cat. The RH side is rattling and today, the core must have broken completely loose because as we were driving it sounded like something had come loose and was scraping/metallic ringing/banging on one of the accessory pulleys. But when I checked, sure enough it's coming from the LH cat.

Could also explain why the engine likes to run on the hot side: if the cat is bad or the "honeycomb" is plugged up, the engine is going to tend to run hotter since it can't expel the exhaust gases as efficiently as it should.

That got me thinking about my options.

1. Replace the cat. Not very attractive from a cost POV as the cats are built into the y pipe.
2. Gut the cat. I'm not adverse to doing that. Pull the shield off, cut open the bottom, gut the catalyst, mig it back together and form the shield back on it. I'd have to do the same to the RH side so LH and RH banks run under the same conditions. Not environmentally friendly, but wallet friendly.
3. New Y pipe without cats. that's $$$ and probably not much different than just gutting the cats.
4.Long tube Headers. Does away with the cats and probably increase exhaust flow. Plus; I always love the idea of "improving" any efficiency on the engine. $$$$ though.....
5. complete exhaust, headers to muffs. Well, certainly attractive option, except......$$$$$!

So this weekend I'll gut the cats. That will take care of the immediate problem of the horrible ringing/banging/rattling noise and the possibility of the cat coming completely apart and blocking up the LH exhaust or coming apart and sending shrapnel downstream to clog the"rear"cat. It will also let me drive the Vette until the snow fly's and I can look at doing some serious work.

Winter will probably see long tubes. That will mess up a couple different emissions systems. Standard headers will mean loosing the AIR ports as well as the EGR pipe (88 has the egr off the RH rear exhaust header). I COULD get headers that have those provisions, but it just doesn't seem like what I would want to do. So that means the EGR system has to go. Not that big a deal as I'm getting set up to burn my own chips (Probably go with a Moates APU1 setup fro real time tuning capabilities) and I'm looking at dropping the LT1 intake on the L98, which makes the egr either very difficult to keep (distributor issues, porting EG to the intake manifold, etc) or you just chop it all off and blank off the ports. I can "tune out" the need for the EGR system, so not a big deal there, except I understand the how and why of an egr system and I like the idea of not only reducing NOX but being able to help stave off knock. Sure, you are adding inert exhaust gas to the fresh charge, but in delaying knock you can dial in more advance, so it all works out in the end. I'll have to work the calibration for the new intake manifold anyways, so the EGR just may "hit the bin"......

The AIR system can probably stay since it would still be able to "feed" the center cat and retain some cat function.

But then, my mind starts going "stupid". GMPP aluminum block, 427 CI, turbos, 4L80E, 411 PCM, Paddle shifters, maybe a 6 speed instead of auto, etc. An LSx would be the easiest, most aftermarket supported, way to get more performance, but I'm not an LSx fan. I'm not arguing the valve/performance of the LSx, but I just find them so damned ugly looking.

LSx: Functional? Yup, absolutley no arguement there. Good looking when you lift that great big clamshell hood? Nope, not even close. GM built that LSx to a purpose and looks was not one of them. There's a reason GM makes all those big plastic engine covers you see these days when you pop the hood......

So I'm fighting my natural tendencies to modify things pretty hard. Thing is; the car is 100% a street cruiser, and it fills that roll well with the L98 and the TPI. Car will never be drag raced, never be autocrossed, never even see a track day. Just sunny day cruising.

The exhaust changes are no big deal and won't adversely effect the way the car fills it's "sunny day cruiser" duties.

The LT1 intake? Well, that will move the torque curve up the RPM range. That may (or may not) negatively effect the satisfying way the car currently rides. It may not make a difference since the L98 has so much torque down low that I can't hammer the throttle without blowing both rear tires away. Giving up a little bottom end/off idle torque might not be a bad thing.

But the car is so satisfying just as it is....as a street cruiser. That just keeps hauling me back from the edge of going absolutely nuts on modifying it.

But just as I settle down and think I'm good, I hear that nagging little voice in the back of my head saying: "come on, you know you want to just go all radical on that thing! Let's do it!"


I'm so confused, leave it or go nuts?

Do the fiscally smart thing or destroy my visa......again.

Ugh.......;)
 
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AlbertaZ06

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I did my swap because I had the car for almost 20 years, and it was sitting for 10 of those years not driving it much, so I turned it into a project car. I just enjoy working in the garage building and figuring out how to do it.
 
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ddgermann

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Well, you've probably seen my "sunny days" thread if you frequent the C4 forum.

The Vette has needed lots of work to get it up to snuff and it rides wonderfully now. The wife and I are really enjoying taking it on little day trips here and there. I honestly am enjoying the car and that's saying something as I'm a bleed "Ford Blue" guy and have a pretty deep seated dislike of anything the General has ever made. Very few GM products I've ever owned have been good to me. IE: breaking down, blowing up or just generally falling apart because of poor designs. I was fighting a pretty strong urge to walk away from the Vette when we were looking at buying it. But the Vette seems to be an exception to my general GM streak of "bad luck". After I fixed all the P.O. bodges that is.

But I'm coming up on a month of ownership and I find myself already thinking about ripping it apart. I'm fighting the urge, but the problem is I'm a gear head from decades back and it isn't long before I'm changing or altering something on a vehicle. Heck, I don't think is was much more than a couple months before I was tearing my new F-150 Lariat apart to add adaptive cruise, lane keeping and "parallel park". Mostly just because i could.....:Woot:

Now the Vette has developed a bad cat. The RH side is rattling and today, the core must have broken completely loose because as we were driving it sounded like something had come loose and was scraping/metallic ringing/banging on one of the accessory pulleys. But when I checked, sure enough it's coming from the LH cat.

Could also explain why the engine likes to run on the hot side: if the cat is bad or the "honeycomb" is plugged up, the engine is going to tend to run hotter since it can't expel the exhaust gases as efficiently as it should.

That got me thinking about my options.

1. Replace the cat. Not very attractive from a cost POV as the cats are built into the y pipe.
2. Gut the cat. I'm not adverse to doing that. Pull the shield off, cut open the bottom, gut the catalyst, mig it back together and form the shield back on it. I'd have to do the same to the RH side so LH and RH banks run under the same conditions. Not environmentally friendly, but wallet friendly.
3. New Y pipe without cats. that's $$$ and probably not much different than just gutting the cats.
4.Long tube Headers. Does away with the cats and probably increase exhaust flow. Plus; I always love the idea of "improving" any efficiency on the engine. $$$$ though.....
5. complete exhaust, headers to muffs. Well, certainly attractive option, except......$$$$$!

So this weekend I'll gut the cats. That will take care of the immediate problem of the horrible ringing/banging/rattling noise and the possibility of the cat coming completely apart and blocking up the LH exhaust or coming apart and sending shrapnel downstream to clog the"rear"cat. It will also let me drive the Vette until the snow fly's and I can look at doing some serious work.

Winter will probably see long tubes. That will mess up a couple different emissions systems. Standard headers will mean loosing the AIR ports as well as the EGR pipe (88 has the egr off the RH rear exhaust header). I COULD get headers that have those provisions, but it just doesn't seem like what I would want to do. So that means the EGR system has to go. Not that big a deal as I'm getting set up to burn my own chips (Probably go with a Moates APU1 setup fro real time tuning capabilities) and I'm looking at dropping the LT1 intake on the L98, which makes the egr either very difficult to keep (distributor issues, porting EG to the intake manifold, etc) or you just chop it all off and blank off the ports. I can "tune out" the need for the EGR system, so not a big deal there, except I understand the how and why of an egr system and I like the idea of not only reducing NOX but being able to help stave off knock. Sure, you are adding inert exhaust gas to the fresh charge, but in delaying knock you can dial in more advance, so it all works out in the end. I'll have to work the calibration for the new intake manifold anyways, so the EGR just may "hit the bin"......

The AIR system can probably stay since it would still be able to "feed" the center cat and retain some cat function.

But then, my mind starts going "stupid". GMPP aluminum block, 427 CI, turbos, 4L80E, 411 PCM, Paddle shifters, maybe a 6 speed instead of auto, etc. An LSx would be the easiest, most aftermarket supported, way to get more performance, but I'm not an LSx fan. I'm not arguing the valve/performance of the LSx, but I just find them so damned ugly looking.

LSx: Functional? Yup, absolutley no arguement there. Good looking when you lift that great big clamshell hood? Nope, not even close. GM built that LSx to a purpose and looks was not one of them. There's a reason GM makes all those big plastic engine covers you see these days when you pop the hood......

So I'm fighting my natural tendencies to modify things pretty hard. Thing is; the car is 100% a street cruiser, and it fills that roll well with the L98 and the TPI. Car will never be drag raced, never be autocrossed, never even see a track day. Just sunny day cruising.

The exhaust changes are no big deal and won't adversely effect the way the car fills it's "sunny day cruiser" duties.

The LT1 intake? Well, that will move the torque curve up the RPM range. That may (or may not) negatively effect the satisfying way the car currently rides. It may not make a difference since the L98 has so much torque down low that I can't hammer the throttle without blowing both rear tires away. Giving up a little bottom end/off idle torque might not be a bad thing.

But the car is so satisfying just as it is....as a street cruiser. That just keeps hauling me back from the edge of going absolutely nuts on modifying it.

But just as I settle down and think I'm good, I hear that nagging little voice in the back of my head saying: "come on, you know you want to just go all radical on that thing! Let's do it!"


I'm so confused, leave it or go nuts?

Do the fiscally smart thing or destroy my visa......again.

Ugh.......;)


Destroy the visa....
or move up to a C6 or C7
 
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Tourmax

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LS swap it........ 🤣
no thanks.

Great engine series, but it's just not where I want to go with the car.

;)

If I was after absolute HP/Torque, I'd go LSx series. that's a no-brainier decision. But, I'm looking to build something that will probably top out around 400 hp and make guys want to stare for hours when the nose is flipped up. The LSx series makes plenty of easy HP, but the engine just looks so damned fugly in stock form (or tarted up for that matter) that it's just not what i want to use.

:)
 
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12cents

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Melt that VISA card; full intake and exhaust, then buy the kit and tune it!!!!! Ya gotta gut the cats anyway so it is just as well to do the full job from one end to the other. A nice rumble cruising with the top down, what more can you ask for on a pleasant sunny day.
 
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Zeeman28a

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I'm looking to build something that will probably top out around 400 hp and make guys want to stare for hours when the nose is flipped up. The LSx series makes plenty of easy HP, but the engine just looks so damned fugly in stock form (or tarted up for that matter) that it's just not what i want to use.
:)

Sounds like you want an LT5.

1567906217401.png
 
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sharkface

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Well, you've probably seen my "sunny days" thread if you frequent the C4 forum.

The Vette has needed lots of work to get it up to snuff and it rides wonderfully now. The wife and I are really enjoying taking it on little day trips here and there. I honestly am enjoying the car and that's saying something as I'm a bleed "Ford Blue" guy and have a pretty deep seated dislike of anything the General has ever made. Very few GM products I've ever owned have been good to me. IE: breaking down, blowing up or just generally falling apart because of poor designs. I was fighting a pretty strong urge to walk away from the Vette when we were looking at buying it. But the Vette seems to be an exception to my general GM streak of "bad luck". After I fixed all the P.O. bodges that is.

But I'm coming up on a month of ownership and I find myself already thinking about ripping it apart. I'm fighting the urge, but the problem is I'm a gear head from decades back and it isn't long before I'm changing or altering something on a vehicle. Heck, I don't think is was much more than a couple months before I was tearing my new F-150 Lariat apart to add adaptive cruise, lane keeping and "parallel park". Mostly just because i could.....:Woot:

Now the Vette has developed a bad cat. The RH side is rattling and today, the core must have broken completely loose because as we were driving it sounded like something had come loose and was scraping/metallic ringing/banging on one of the accessory pulleys. But when I checked, sure enough it's coming from the LH cat.

Could also explain why the engine likes to run on the hot side: if the cat is bad or the "honeycomb" is plugged up, the engine is going to tend to run hotter since it can't expel the exhaust gases as efficiently as it should.

That got me thinking about my options.

1. Replace the cat. Not very attractive from a cost POV as the cats are built into the y pipe.
2. Gut the cat. I'm not adverse to doing that. Pull the shield off, cut open the bottom, gut the catalyst, mig it back together and form the shield back on it. I'd have to do the same to the RH side so LH and RH banks run under the same conditions. Not environmentally friendly, but wallet friendly.
3. New Y pipe without cats. that's $$$ and probably not much different than just gutting the cats.
4.Long tube Headers. Does away with the cats and probably increase exhaust flow. Plus; I always love the idea of "improving" any efficiency on the engine. $$$$ though.....
5. complete exhaust, headers to muffs. Well, certainly attractive option, except......$$$$$!

So this weekend I'll gut the cats. That will take care of the immediate problem of the horrible ringing/banging/rattling noise and the possibility of the cat coming completely apart and blocking up the LH exhaust or coming apart and sending shrapnel downstream to clog the"rear"cat. It will also let me drive the Vette until the snow fly's and I can look at doing some serious work.

Winter will probably see long tubes. That will mess up a couple different emissions systems. Standard headers will mean loosing the AIR ports as well as the EGR pipe (88 has the egr off the RH rear exhaust header). I COULD get headers that have those provisions, but it just doesn't seem like what I would want to do. So that means the EGR system has to go. Not that big a deal as I'm getting set up to burn my own chips (Probably go with a Moates APU1 setup fro real time tuning capabilities) and I'm looking at dropping the LT1 intake on the L98, which makes the egr either very difficult to keep (distributor issues, porting EG to the intake manifold, etc) or you just chop it all off and blank off the ports. I can "tune out" the need for the EGR system, so not a big deal there, except I understand the how and why of an egr system and I like the idea of not only reducing NOX but being able to help stave off knock. Sure, you are adding inert exhaust gas to the fresh charge, but in delaying knock you can dial in more advance, so it all works out in the end. I'll have to work the calibration for the new intake manifold anyways, so the EGR just may "hit the bin"......

The AIR system can probably stay since it would still be able to "feed" the center cat and retain some cat function.

But then, my mind starts going "stupid". GMPP aluminum block, 427 CI, turbos, 4L80E, 411 PCM, Paddle shifters, maybe a 6 speed instead of auto, etc. An LSx would be the easiest, most aftermarket supported, way to get more performance, but I'm not an LSx fan. I'm not arguing the valve/performance of the LSx, but I just find them so damned ugly looking.

LSx: Functional? Yup, absolutley no arguement there. Good looking when you lift that great big clamshell hood? Nope, not even close. GM built that LSx to a purpose and looks was not one of them. There's a reason GM makes all those big plastic engine covers you see these days when you pop the hood......

So I'm fighting my natural tendencies to modify things pretty hard. Thing is; the car is 100% a street cruiser, and it fills that roll well with the L98 and the TPI. Car will never be drag raced, never be autocrossed, never even see a track day. Just sunny day cruising.

The exhaust changes are no big deal and won't adversely effect the way the car fills it's "sunny day cruiser" duties.

The LT1 intake? Well, that will move the torque curve up the RPM range. That may (or may not) negatively effect the satisfying way the car currently rides. It may not make a difference since the L98 has so much torque down low that I can't hammer the throttle without blowing both rear tires away. Giving up a little bottom end/off idle torque might not be a bad thing.

But the car is so satisfying just as it is....as a street cruiser. That just keeps hauling me back from the edge of going absolutely nuts on modifying it.

But just as I settle down and think I'm good, I hear that nagging little voice in the back of my head saying: "come on, you know you want to just go all radical on that thing! Let's do it!"


I'm so confused, leave it or go nuts?

Do the fiscally smart thing or destroy my visa......again.

Ugh.......;)
 

sharkface

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My feeling is to keep a C4 a C4. Although they are not collectable now, they will be. Mine is bone stock except for C5 wheels. It's good to do routine maintenance, but keep it stock. If you invest in changing motors, etc, you might be disappointed when you find out your return on the investment and time doesn't make it worth it. All Corvettes don't need modifications. They are great the way they were created. Numbers matching and stock is the way to go on a C4. They will become collectable soon.
 

Tourmax

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My feeling is to keep a C4 a C4. Although they are not collectable now, they will be. Mine is bone stock except for C5 wheels. It's good to do routine maintenance, but keep it stock. If you invest in changing motors, etc, you might be disappointed when you find out your return on the investment and time doesn't make it worth it. All Corvettes don't need modifications. They are great the way they were created. Numbers matching and stock is the way to go on a C4. They will become collectable soon.
Not concerned with "resale". Never have been, never will be.

To me, that's like buying a house and not putting pictures up because the next buyer may not like holes in the wall.

I've never been able to bring myself to use the words "car" and "investment" in the same sentence. Except in ultra rare exceptions (like a 60's COPO Camaro, Boss 429 Mustang or similar), those words just don't go togther.

Nothing wrong with keeping something stock. The C4 is very enjoyable the way it is, for what it is.

But not modifying a car is just not who I am. I get just as much enjoyment (maybe more) building machines as driving them.

I honestly can't help myself sometimes......lol!
 
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Tourmax

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Alight. I think I have an initial plan:

LT1 intake. Retain the HEI distributor. EGR delete and shave the bosses off the back of hte LT1 intake. Retain some egr function by going with a cam that allows some reversion, similar to the way the LT4 makes do with cam timing and no egr valve. Retain the AIR system for both belt geometry and feeding the center cat to retain some CO mitigation.

Custom prom, drawing on a decade or so of burning/flashing my previous engines. I'm out of practice, but it should come back fairly quickly once I start messing with the tables.

Exhaust will probably start with a set of long tube headers and go from there as time and budget allows.

Should drop me in somewhere around the 300-350 hp at the crank and lots of shiny "wow" bits under the hood. That's good enough for me.

:)

Or, I could just do a 180, polish the TPI and be done with it. Many options here....
 
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sharkface

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Not concerned with "resale". Never have been, never will be.

To me, that's like buying a house and not putting pictures up because the next buyer may not like holes in the wall.

I've never been able to bring myself to use the words "car" and "investment" in the same sentence. Except in ultra rare exceptions (like a 60's COPO Camaro, Boss 429 Mustang or similar), those words just don't go togther.

Nothing wrong with keeping something stock. The C4 is very enjoyable the way it is, for what it is.

But not modifying a car is just not who I am. I get just as much enjoyment (maybe more) building machines as driving them.

I honestly can't help myself sometimes......lol!
 

sharkface

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very true if you have the drive and talent to customize...
Most C4"s like mine is only 230 horses but has 330 ft lbs of torque at certain rpms. Anyway, sometimes more horsepower just means being able to pull donuts at any given moment. You mention Fords, I once had a high horsepower Mustang Lx and you better be prepared to stop the ass end from swinging out on you the second you tromped on it.
The C4 is a nice body style so adding customizations should be fun.
 

Tourmax

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very true if you have the drive and talent to customize...
Most C4"s like mine is only 230 horses but has 330 ft lbs of torque at certain rpms. Anyway, sometimes more horsepower just means being able to pull donuts at any given moment. You mention Fords, I once had a high horsepower Mustang Lx and you better be prepared to stop the ass end from swinging out on you the second you tromped on it.
The C4 is a nice body style so adding customizations should be fun.
yep, have this on the back burner right now:

IMG_7887.JPG
fr_133_size880.jpg


But, the "quadrabind" rear suspension is gone on mine. The rear end is all 8.8, Bilstein, Mach 1 and Maximum Motorsports torque arm suspesion:

fr_232_size880.jpg


She'll go, and go straight!

Although, I am building it for autocrossing......;)

(started out as an 83, V6, c5 auto, econobox with no options at all)
 
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sharkface

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Well, that Ford sure "Does Have A Better Idea". That Mustang is lucky it has someone like you giving it an extreme
make over. That Stang is well on it's way to being really choice.

Leave your C4 alone or just give it to me. Build yourself an AC Cobra kit car next....
 

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