The checkered flag for the corvette.

Iso said:
In my defence to my failed relationships, it's better to have loved and lost than not to have loved at all. An expensive endeavour not recommended for all.
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You probably should have bought yourself a new corvette. It would have been wiser choice on how to spend your money. And when you decide to "divorce"it you might even get some money back instead of the other way around.
 
Black 03 Z06 said:
I worked in the battery industry for 30 years, selling heavy lead acid batteries and chargers for material handling equipment. The concept of the electric car is of course not new, I have an early 1900's picture somewhere of a Stanley Steamer, Baker Electric and a gasoline powered race car on the beach at Ormond in Florida. All claiming supremacy. The one company I worked for was heavily involved in the electric car market many years ago, they partnered with the American Federal Government to try to make it work. Not sure if it was the lead acid battery or charging technology but it was not very successful. They have come a long way since then.

It was not that long ago that hydrogen was going to replace the battery as the preferred fuel source for MH equipment. That did not work out but what did was the technology from the charger manufactures and their "rapid charge" process. In the past LA batteries were typically taken from a 100% charge down to about 20% capacity and then given a full charge with a rest period. Typical 7/24 operations required multiple batteries to keep things moving, a large investment. The rapid charge technology provides a recharge at a very high rate whenever there is down time. Not typical for the design of a LA battery. However it worked although battery life was shortened and if you had poorly made batteries well the charging method would certainly cut both cycle life and performance out quickly.

My own feeling is that as long as gasoline remains plentiful and cheap that will continue to be the source of power for a long time. Automobiles are pretty clean from an environmental standpoint, although some would disagree. I think we will continue to see development in the internal combustion engine as well as electrics. There was a guy who tried to quality a car at Indianapolis many years ago. It was electric and his concept was to make pit stops just like the methanol powered racers but he would change the electrolyte and send the car off again. Well it did not work but dreamers dream and I could be 100% wrong with my thoughts. Technology will continue to march on, dragging us with it.

My question of the current technology is are they really environmentally friendly? Mining the core materials, manufacturing and of course disposal. The rate of recycling on a LA battery is something in the range of 90% which is significant. Everything is reused, lead, pastes, plastics and electrolyte.

Last question on electric vehicles. Who is paying for their share of the road tax? Best I can figure out is the rest of us.
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Read an article several years ago comparing a Hummer to a Prius. I am sure somethings have changed but never the less the Hummer came out as more environmentally friendly even with the gas consumption simply because of the material sourcing costs such as Lithium procurement, etc, manufacturing and the final disposal (recycling) costs.
A lot of people only take in to consideration the cost to purchase and run it.
As to who is paying for the road use I am willing to bet that once there are more EV's on the road and the dimwits in the DOT realize that there are less gas taxes coming in that there will be a little extra tacked on to an EV plate or something like that. Governments like money too much to let it drible away
Plus I have still not seen a 10 minute charging station to "fill er up".
I'll keep smiling as I enjoy the pleasure of my ICE
 
LE BARON said:
Read an article several years ago comparing a Hummer to a Prius. I am sure somethings have changed but never the less the Hummer came out as more environmentally friendly even with the gas consumption simply because of the material sourcing costs such as Lithium procurement, etc, manufacturing and the final disposal (recycling) costs.
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This would seem to be an unbiased and informed view...



Surprised me!
 
I tend to disagree with his electrical supply statement...
so if 1/4 of all cars on the road were electric tomorrow, the electrical grid could handle that no problem....For starters, I have visited many under developed third world countries and their electrical grid can't handle 20 people making toast at the same time.... But since he's american, I'm sure he's just considering the US ... How many times have we heard about electricity overloads, too many air conditioners running in the summer, even so much here in Alberta as being asked to only turn Christmas lights on only from 7:00 to 9:00 pm due to over demand.... Here's an excerpt from a 2018 news article in Ontario..

"Ontario will face electricity shortages in the coming years, as the loss of supply from a planned shutdown of a major nuclear power plant is made worse by the provincial government's cancellation of renewable energy projects.
In a recent forecast, the Independent Electricity System Operator (IESO) — the Crown corporation that runs the province's electric grid — predicted that, if nothing changes, Ontario will start seeing electricity shortages during peak summer periods starting in 2023 and continuing thereafter. The report also forecasts shortages during peak winter usage from 2025 to 2028."

Not damning his research but like he said, his vid could have been an hour long... and probably should have been more than that as this was a very simplified and only partial look at the issue. I agree with the theory though, but more on depleting a supposed limited non renewable resource basis, than a reduction of carbon emissions. JMHO
 
Rruuff Day said:
I tend to disagree with his electrical supply statement...
so if 1/4 of all cars on the road were electric tomorrow, the electrical grid could handle that no problem....For starters, I have visited many under developed third world countries and their electrical grid can't handle 20 people making toast at the same time.... But since he's american, I'm sure he's just considering the US ... How many times have we heard about electricity overloads, too many air conditioners running in the summer, even so much here in Alberta as being asked to only turn Christmas lights on only from 7:00 to 9:00 pm due to over demand.... Here's an excerpt from a 2018 news article in Ontario..

"Ontario will face electricity shortages in the coming years, as the loss of supply from a planned shutdown of a major nuclear power plant is made worse by the provincial government's cancellation of renewable energy projects.
In a recent forecast, the Independent Electricity System Operator (IESO) — the Crown corporation that runs the province's electric grid — predicted that, if nothing changes, Ontario will start seeing electricity shortages during peak summer periods starting in 2023 and continuing thereafter. The report also forecasts shortages during peak winter usage from 2025 to 2028."

Not damning his research but like he said, his vid could have been an hour long... and probably should have been more than that as this was a very simplified and only partial look at the issue. I agree with the theory though, but more on depleting a supposed limited non renewable resource basis, than a reduction of carbon emissions. JMHO
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Somewhat dissolution in your statement on electricity overloads, in Ontario we make more electricity than we can use, it's a delicate procedure with hydro to control levels of power consumed to the power delivered; hence overproduction of electricity is a bad thing and has to be discharged to somewhere else cannot be stored, much time Ontario has to give the power away to the point of giving millions of dollars to the buyer as an incentive.
 
Dare I say ISO is correct. Ontario has sold electricity to the US for less then it cost to make. How's that for a smart business decision? A negative profit.
 
Not quite how it works.

You manufacture a product based on usage assumptions. Lets use airline bookings as an example. The airlines know historically there is a 10% no show factor. So they oversell based on their usage assumptions. As well the last 10%(ish) are sold at deep discounts (far less than the operating cost of that seat). Any revenue generated is more than the revenue of an empty seat. it sometimes backfires...

So Ontario Hydro manufactures power based on usage assumptions. It is in a more difficult position because it cannot either store its product or run out of product. So Ontario Hydro overproduces to ensure market capacity. Left over product is then sold for whatever revenue can be generated as the remaining electrons otherwise would be dissipated into the universe. Assume for a moment Ontario Hydro did not produce enought for the market on any given day. we would be reading posts about how lousy Ontario Hydro is in “guessing” market demand and God forbid mom can’t run her hair dryer on Sunday morning. The power company would be pillaged in the media for lousy management. So they overproduce (because running out of power is a lesser evil than creating too much) and sign surplus production contracts with our neighbours to the south. Yes the overproduction is likely sold for less that cost, but that is better than zero revenue. Its like a 50% off sale at the department store.

Making market assumptions is the cornerstone of any business venture. Monday morning quarterbacking is easy but try for five minutes to quantify the variables in determining electrical grid requirements. Thanks but no thanks.
 
Iso said:
Somewhat dissolution in your statement on electricity overloads, in Ontario we make more electricity than we can use, it's a delicate procedure with hydro to control levels of power consumed to the power delivered; hence overproduction of electricity is a bad thing and has to be discharged to somewhere else cannot be stored, much time Ontario has to give the power away to the point of giving millions of dollars to the buyer as an incentive.
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Was only quoting your IESO Ontario Crown corporation ISO but in hindsight it would be absurd for me to argue "dissolution" with you, given your lifetime of practice in the art.
 
If I remember right the Hydro 1 got on the renewable bandwagon with solar and wind. The know it all bur rats signed contrats based on the presumptive capacity of the units assuming the wind blew 24hrs a day. Not sure if they thought the sun shone 24hrs a day but they could have been bright enough for that to. At any rate they signed for X number of years at some ridiculously high rate and then realized two things. The wind did not blow 24hrs a day and they were paying too much for the generating capacity to sell in to the market.
Again, if I heard right, they ended up paying the wind farms the contract rate to, get this, idle the windmills. Companies were/are happy as pigs in you know what.
Can't beat stupidity.
 
ISO your argument loses a little weight when you use "plain" instead of "plane". Plus it's Mary Barra who is CEO of GM. If you are going to rant and give us all a lesson in the future of Corvette at least check your grammar and spelling.
 

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