2024 Ordering Strategy to save on both taxes

Mr.Corvette said:
Morgan was a no show at our the CWO Corvette club event on Saturday. GCrone should be fine, as in 2021 you could put an order for the Stingray into the system and generate a bill of sale with an order number. Along with his time stamped deposit in 2021, he can avoid paying the luxury tax.
Are you coming to the Finch takeover show at 10 am on Saturday September 16th our club is hosting? We can ask him together. If there is a way of ignoring the required step of being able to place an order for the car which you couldn't do for a Z06 or E-Ray before the deadline, I want to hear about because I also have a Z06 deposit from 2 1/2 years ago in 2021 and I have been told avoiding the tax isn't possible without all the requirements being met.
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i asked my salesperson about this and he said no go. I have a dated deposit slip but not a signed order or bill of sale.
 
GCrone said:
i asked my salesperson about this and he said no go. I have a dated deposit slip but not a signed order or bill of sale.
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If your deposit was in September of 2021 they could have given you a bill of sale and an order number as the luxury tax didn't start until August 31, 2022.
The tax initially was under review and didn't get approval through the house of commons until after you put your deposit down. Still an initial order could have been entered into the system generating a bill of sale which would have saved you this additional tax.
 
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Mr.Corvette said:
Here's the response from a GM dealer. To the CRA what you are describing here is fraud. Yes, there is a discount on the MSRP of a vehicle if you qualify for Preferred Pricing and your company is on the list, like TD Bank for example. Your discount will be removed from MSRP and luxury tax will then be calculated on the sale price of the vehicle, plus freight, dealer admin fees and extended warranty. Trades don't come into effect with regards to luxury tax. Dealers are required to show an ACV (actual cash value) of your trade as they get audited by GM every two years. After that they get audited by CRA. No General Manager would sign off on your idea as it will get them in trouble with the local auto authority (in Ontario OMVIC) and corporate. There is one dealer in Ontario that is currently being audited by GM and by doing things that don't comply with corporate guidelines, looks like the will be paying a $400,000-$500,000 fine back to GM for doing this sort of thing before the CRA comes in.
Dealers have to charge luxury tax on the bottom line price before trades and HST because HST is also charged on luxury tax.
It's a great idea you have but doing what you suggest could cost the dealership it's franchise agreement I was told and will certainly be caught by a GM audit creating steep fines from GM.
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I threw that out there more or less as a question. Dealerships were called Dealerships because MSRP was negotiable and your trade was also negotiable. What I am surprised at by your response is that it appears MSRP is no longer negotiable. My understanding was that the MSRP is only a suggested price that a Dealership can sell for less if they wish but cannot sell for more without the manufacture coming down on them. MSRP is now
Preferred Pricing and your company is on the list, like TD Bank
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velvetfog said:
I threw that out there more or less as a question. Dealerships were called Dealerships because MSRP was negotiable and your trade was also negotiable. What I am surprised at by your response is that it appears MSRP is no longer negotiable. My understanding was that the MSRP is only a suggested price that a Dealership can sell for less if they wish but cannot sell for more without the manufacture coming down on them. MSRP is now
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I agree. MSRP IS negotiable! Manufacturers Suggested retail price.
I did that exact thing buying my Malibu with a trade in. I bargained for the price of the new car and then bargained for the trade-in price after!
It is NOT against the law. It might be if done nudge nudge wink wink, but that's all!
 
Murray20c8 said:
I agree. MSRP IS negotiable! Manufacturers Suggested retail price.
I did that exact thing buying my Malibu with a trade in. I bargained for the price of the new car and then bargained for the trade-in price after!
It is NOT against the law. It might be if done nudge nudge wink wink, but that's all!
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Murray, you can do that with Malibu's and other vehicles below $100,000 but not on vehicles above. The value of the vehicle is recorded as it comes into the county including freight and air tax which are also subject to luxury tax along with dealer and warranty charges. The gov't also wants luxury tax charged on improvements to the car as covered earlier in this thread. Luxury tax is based on MSRP unless you qualify for preferred pricing. Any discount given off MSRP is irrelevant to the gov't as you are charged 20% on the car and items I listed before HST. Those are the rules that apply.
 
Actually if I walked into a Dealership and anyone suggested off the cuff that my inquiry was fraud I would walk out minus the car. They would need to be a bit more diplomatic than that and just explain that this would be a most uncomfortable situation and my reasoning is not correct.
 
velvetfog said:
Actually if I walked into a Dealership and anyone suggested off the cuff that my inquiry was fraud I would walk out minus the car. They would need to be a bit more diplomatic than that and just explain that this would be a most uncomfortable situation and my reasoning is not correct.
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Then I would refer you to speak to the General Manager to see if your tactic would pass a GM audit and potential fines for accepted corporate practices. Personally, I would tell you to have a nice day.
 
harshadt said:
So what I understand is, as an example, if a car is $130,000, but I negotiate it down to $99,000, the dealer will sell the car to me for $99,000 but lux tax is on the $130,000 (so $6000), and final price is calculated like this $99,0000+$6000= $105,000 x hst= final price.
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Yes, that's pretty much it. Nice job with the discount or perhaps that is your trade in.
 
velvetfog said:
What is there to see the General Manager about ? I'm saying that if you took 2 minutes of your professional time I'd acknowledge my mistake . Fraud is a big insulting word for the unintended.
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It wasn't meant for you. It was the royal (hypothetical) you. I saw your point, but what he is saying is, to pull if off it would be fraud.
 
Murray20c8 said:
I agree. MSRP IS negotiable! Manufacturers Suggested retail price.
I did that exact thing buying my Malibu with a trade in. I bargained for the price of the new car and then bargained for the trade-in price after!
It is NOT against the law. It might be if done nudge nudge wink wink, but that's all!
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Murray, I double checked to your point here, if you do find a C8 that your dealer discounts then you would pay the luxury tax on that "sale" price, plus freight, air tax, dealer admin fees, and warranty if you select it. Something else, the Corvette doesn't qualify for preferred pricing just the Cadillac in vehicles over 100K.
 
Mr.Corvette said:
Murray, I double checked to your point here, if you do find a C8 that your dealer discounts then you would pay the luxury tax on that "sale" price, plus freight, air tax, dealer admin fees, and warranty if you select it. Something else, the Corvette doesn't qualify for preferred pricing just the Cadillac in vehicles over 100K.
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Cool, but just because you call it prefered pricing means nothing to a dealer that is willing to sell it for under MSRP. Prefered pricing is some GM thing, but dealers can sell for anything they want to. Obviously there is no reason to for this car.
 
I have a 2022 3LT Z51 . I'm on a list for a 2024 since May. So I'm one of the ones who got the news that my car of choice would jump $14,000 and almost $19,000 after taxes. I'm weighting whether I still want to do this or just keep a car I already love. The price increase was one thing but the lux tax really put the icing on the cake. I know I must be one of the many and I do know others who are questioning the rational of a 2024 Corvette. I'm thinking 2024 is not going to be the easy ride for the Corvette Dealerships complicated with 7 / 8% interest rates.
 
velvetfog said:
I have a 2022 3LT Z51 . I'm on a list for a 2024 since May. So I'm one of the ones who got the news that my car of choice would jump $14,000 and almost $19,000 after taxes. I'm weighting whether I still want to do this or just keep a car I already love. The price increase was one thing but the lux tax really put the icing on the cake. I know I must be one of the many and I do know others who are questioning the rational of a 2024 Corvette. I'm thinking 2024 is not going to be the easy ride for the Corvette Dealerships complicated with 7 / 8% interest rates.
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I've had many opportunities to "upgrade", but we flat out love the car we have. If you have a car you love and there are no issues with it, I'd just keep it. Whatever you decide, best of luck to you!
 
Murray20c8 said:
I've had many opportunities to "upgrade", but we flat out love the car we have. If you have a car you love and there are no issues with it, I'd just keep it. Whatever you decide, best of luck to you!
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And you don't have to put up with the new entertainment system which by all accounts seems to be a bit of a disaster
 
I just went through the procedure of ordering my C8 about 5 weeks ago. It is supposed to be built the second week of December. The same thought occurred to me about ordering a lot of the options through the parts department and saving the 22.6 % luxury tax (20% +13% HST on the 20%). Including the ground effects package, mats, car cover, rad screens, battery tender etc. my tax savings came out to about $1,600. The salesman did tell me that the dealer is supposed to collect the luxury tax on parts ordered that were obviously intended for the vehicle, but they had no plans to do so. The one possible downside in going this route is that, if it is important to you, these options will not show up on your build sheet / window sticker. The only other car I have purchased directly from the manufacturer with my specific options is my 98 C5, triple black convert 6 speed with 62,000 kms. I still have the original window sticker from that car. Monetarily, it has no value, but sentimentally it is important to me. I hope you all have a nice day.
 
Ian M said:
I just went through the procedure of ordering my C8 about 5 weeks ago. It is supposed to be built the second week of December. The same thought occurred to me about ordering a lot of the options through the parts department and saving the 22.6 % luxury tax (20% +13% HST on the 20%). Including the ground effects package, mats, car cover, rad screens, battery tender etc. my tax savings came out to about $1,600. The salesman did tell me that the dealer is supposed to collect the luxury tax on parts ordered that were obviously intended for the vehicle, but they had no plans to do so. The one possible downside in going this route is that, if it is important to you, these options will not show up on your build sheet / window sticker. The only other car I have purchased directly from the manufacturer with my specific options is my 98 C5, triple black convert 6 speed with 62,000 kms. I still have the original window sticker from that car. Monetarily, it has no value, but sentimentally it is important to me. I hope you all have a nice day.
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Ian, did you see the information on here in the past about ordering from a discount gm parts source with free shipping to save additional money from your dealer
who is supposed to charge you luxury tax on improvements intended for the car? At least when I ordered my C5's we didn't have to deal with this tax and change the orders!
 

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