1988 Convertible for sunny day drives

[Tourmax]

So the center bezel showed up today and the 2 din radio is scheduled to show up tomorrow. That puts me square in the middle of fab this weekend.



But it puts me in a bit of a quandary. I ordered a spare bezel in order to chop one up and still have the oem one in case it doesn't work out. I do this with all these types of fab, never destroy the original! The various other dash panels are also cracked and split, like all 80's plastic interiors go.

I like the 80's dash look, I just don't like the cheap plastic look. A refresh/update is in order since I'm going to be tearing things apart anyways.

In order to fit the 2 Din, I'm going to end up deleting some of the details around the openings and plastic welding a fair bit of it. That will get me a functional piece, but not a "pretty" piece. Same with the rest of the dahs panels, I'll repair them while I'm at it and match them to the center bezel. The passenger side I'm going to ditch the "breadbox" and either go with a flat panel or one of the hard to find glove box covers.

So my options (as I see them) are repaint, hydro dip or some type of vinyl wrap.

Paint offers me limitless color choices, but it chips easily and needs perfection in the prep before paint. Get it wrong and it looks like something a 14 year old would do. Heck, get it right and it might still look like something a 16 year old may do. Of course, paint is fairly easily repaired (if you useda rattle can) and if you don't like the color, just scuff it up and try another one.

Hydro dip opens up endless possibilities for "effects". Everything from skulls to carbon fiber looks. But, it's essentially paint. Prep has to be perfect and you have to pay someone to do the paint/dip process. And, if it doesn't come out as you had hoped, you're stuck with both a bill and a piece you can't stand to look at.

Vinyl wrap is attractive for a couple reasons. Vinyl wrap hides a lot of fabrication "sins". It's also cheap, easy to apply and types are as endless as hydro dipping. The problem is it often looks, well......cheap. There's also the problem of where you start and end it. It's not a big concern if you are wrapping a small piece, just cover it and go. When you're dealing with a dash panel with multiple openings and features, it gets exponentially more difficult to make it look good. And I want this interio rto look good as it will eventually all be covered in black leather (IEwhere it looks right - seats, dash pad, door panels, etc)

I think I'm going to run to crappy tire an dpick up a couple different cans One of the ones that piques my interest is the "metalcast" series:

 

[Darrellg1]

Car has had a pretty bad knock issue with light throttle since the day we bought it. After a full tank of Shell 93, bad gas was ruled out and it would still knock like crazy with light throttle and higher gears. It knocked so badly it was either get your foot right out of it or you needed to get into it enough to make the 700R4 shift down.

Well, that just wont do. This car is intended to be used as a "GT" (ie: grand touring) car, so we needed it to be able to loaf along at light throttle openings.

Having images of breaking down that horrendous TPI intake to get to the EGR ports to clean out the passages and the EGR valve pintle, I looked around a bit more before tearing into it.

The knock sensor is hooked up and there's no active or stored codes. But the blade connector is pretty cruddy. Knowing how an knock sensor works (generates a small current when it "knocks" which is read by the ECM) and that higher than normal resistance in a circuit can effect operations, I pulled the connector and polished up the terminals. Simple, easy, costs nothing so why not?

Then I pulled the MAF and gave it a good cleaning with some MAF cleaner. A PO had put a K&N in the car so it's not unreasonable to think that the MAF would have a coating of oil and general schmutz on it. This is a problem as the MAF works on heating a wire, which is cooled by the airflow. The ECM reads how much current is required to heat the wire to know how many Grams of air are being consumed. The coating on the MAF wire essentially "insulates" the MAF, which means the ECM gets the wrong current reading. Consequently, the ECM schedules the wrong fuel and spark. With the ECM readng wrong, less fuel and spark leads to a lean condition and knock is often the result. Cost 10 bucks for a can of cleaner, so it's also cheap and easy. Just make sure you remove the MAF when cleaning. Maf cleaner and electricity doesn't play well together. Also, you need to let the MAF completely dry before reinstalling it. Count on letting it sit a good 15-30 mins before putting it back in. To cean the MAF, you need to really soak down the sensor. I used nearly an entire can on mine, over multiple cleaning sessions. Took me about 1.5 hrs before I was satisfied it was as clean as I could get it.

Lastly, the car had been sitting most of it's life and drives had been short and quick. Very easy to build up carbon in the intake and cylinders. So, as much as I don't like "mechanic in a can" solutions, I dumped a can of seafoam in the tank and then ran a can of Seafoam through the intake via a vacuum port. Well, Ive seen top end cleaners make smoke before, but this was simply EPIC. No doubt in my mind that years of short, go nowhere trips had choked up everything that dealt with combustion gases on this poor little L98. After choking the engine down to stall and letting it sit for 1/2 hr, I took it for a nice long drive. Man, it must have taken a good 10 miles before the engine finally stopped smoking like the rings were fried.

But now; no smoke, no rattling and most importantly - no knock!

I can still FORCE it into an almost undetectable knock if I lug it very badly, but that's not unusual in those conditions. Either way, I seem to have gotten whatever was causing the knock condition in normal operations. Now it's just a matter of making sure the car goes for a good 20-odd minutes on each drive (with some high speed/highway work) to keep it good and clean inside, as well as continue to clean out what is left in there. MAchines don't like to sit or be lightly used, they want to RUN.....

This winter, when the car goes into long term storage, I'll still pull the intake off and give the passages a good, deep cleaning. I'd like to say the TPI will stay off and the LT1 intake will go on, but I just can't see it being done and up to my standards before next spring......

Nice to see you got the knock before predet did any real damage! I always been very leery of that Seafoam, but many swear by it. Including my brother, who like us served, but he was a Cee-Bee in the U.S Navy. HE loves that stuff lol.

 

[Darrellg1]

So the center bezel showed up today and the 2 din radio is scheduled to show up tomorrow. That puts me square in the middle of fab this weekend.



But it puts me in a bit of a quandary. I ordered a spare bezel in order to chop one up and still have the oem one in case it doesn't work out. I do this with all these types of fab, never destroy the original! The various other dash panels are also cracked and split, like all 80's plastic interiors go.

I like the 80's dash look, I just don't like the cheap plastic look. A refresh/update is in order since I'm going to be tearing things apart anyways.

In order to fit the 2 Din, I'm going to end up deleting some of the details around the openings and plastic welding a fair bit of it. That will get me a functional piece, but not a "pretty" piece. Same with the rest of the dahs panels, I'll repair them while I'm at it and match them to the center bezel. The passenger side I'm going to ditch the "breadbox" and either go with a flat panel or one of the hard to find glove box covers.

So my options (as I see them) are repaint, hydro dip or some type of vinyl wrap.

Paint offers me limitless color choices, but it chips easily and needs perfection in the prep before paint. Get it wrong and it looks like something a 14 year old would do. Heck, get it right and it might still look like something a 16 year old may do. Of course, paint is fairly easily repaired (if you useda rattle can) and if you don't like the color, just scuff it up and try another one.

Hydro dip opens up endless possibilities for "effects". Everything from skulls to carbon fiber looks. But, it's essentially paint. Prep has to be perfect and you have to pay someone to do the paint/dip process. And, if it doesn't come out as you had hoped, you're stuck with both a bill and a piece you can't stand to look at.

Vinyl wrap is attractive for a couple reasons. Vinyl wrap hides a lot of fabrication "sins". It's also cheap, easy to apply and types are as endless as hydro dipping. The problem is it often looks, well......cheap. There's also the problem of where you start and end it. It's not a big concern if you are wrapping a small piece, just cover it and go. When you're dealing with a dash panel with multiple openings and features, it gets exponentially more difficult to make it look good. And I want this interio rto look good as it will eventually all be covered in black leather (IEwhere it looks right - seats, dash pad, door panels, etc)

I think I'm going to run to crappy tire an dpick up a couple different cans One of the ones that piques my interest is the "metalcast" series:

View attachment 29939

I bought a 2 DIN Boss radio, but have issues with the OEM Amped speakers. No audio. ANy ideas? I hear there is an adapter.

 

[Tourmax]

I bought a 2 DIN Boss radio, but have issues with the OEM Amped speakers. No audio. ANy ideas? I hear there is an adapter.

Nope.

But if I understand the system correctly, the Bose speakers are looking for a "line in" signal and your aftermarket head unit is putting out "speaker level".

Your aftermarket head nti has an amplifier section built in and that's what you are feeding the Bose speakers. FYI, most serious audio enthusiast use line level outputs becuase the internal amplifier section in most head units are crap. It's usually becuase the manf. needs to make too many compromises to get an amplifier section in to such a small footprint. They end up amplifying EVERYTHING, even the base noise floor. That's usually the hisssssssssyou hear from speakers when you have the sound all the way down.

"Line in" is what you would need if you were running a separate amplifier, which is essentially what the Bose speakers are. A small speaker with a small, dedicated amplifier.

Most "higher end" aftermarket units have both a line out and a speaker level out. I'm not sure on the Bose.

You can also buy a "converter" that will take a speaker level output and convert it to a line level, but you're still taking the internal amplifier sound and all of it's issues. You're jsut reducing the signal down to where you probably won't hear it's base noise floor.

I could be completely wrong though. Some of that is speculation because I have never taken a Bose unit apart to see how it is engineered. Bose has been known to do some pretty "out there" things in their designs.

The Bose head unit and speakers were designed to work together as a unit. IMHO, if you remove one component, you might as well remove them all and start from scratch......

 

[Elf]

Nice reed and I enjoyed . Had an 87 and wish Ida kept it .

 

[Darrellg1]

Nope.

But if I understand the system correctly, the Bose speakers are looking for a "line in" signal and your aftermarket head unit is putting out "speaker level".

Your aftermarket head nti has an amplifier section built in and that's what you are feeding the Bose speakers. FYI, most serious audio enthusiast use line level outputs becuase the internal amplifier section in most head units are crap. It's usually becuase the manf. needs to make too many compromises to get an amplifier section in to such a small footprint. They end up amplifying EVERYTHING, even the base noise floor. That's usually the hisssssssssyou hear from speakers when you have the sound all the way down.

"Line in" is what you would need if you were running a separate amplifier, which is essentially what the Bose speakers are. A small speaker with a small, dedicated amplifier.

Most "higher end" aftermarket units have both a line out and a speaker level out. I'm not sure on the Bose.

You can also buy a "converter" that will take a speaker level output and convert it to a line level, but you're still taking the internal amplifier sound and all of it's issues. You're jsut reducing the signal down to where you probably won't hear it's base noise floor.

I could be completely wrong though. Some of that is speculation because I have never taken a Bose unit apart to see how it is engineered. Bose has been known to do some pretty "out there" things in their designs.

The Bose head unit and speakers were designed to work together as a unit. IMHO, if you remove one component, you might as well remove them all and start from scratch......

Yeah I kinda looking at replacing the speakers. I'm at a crossroads so to speak as I'm looking at getting the new 2020 and maybe selling this one. Not sure yet. Gotta get a new car 1st lol

 

[Tourmax]

So after some thought, I'm going to try paint on the dash pieces.

Just the center bits, the edges will stay the textured black plastic.

Going to try this color first;

That will be the center console, the center stack, the instrument cluster and the passenger side dash panel. Just the "insert" parts of them though.

Good thng about trying paint first is I can always change the color or switch it up to vinyl or hydro-dip at a later date.

I'm going for a classy, "subdued" look. I'm not about loud and brash, despite the fact I'm driving around a 1980's fashion statement that almost everyone waves or turns and stares at as i rumble on by!

LOL!

 

[Tourmax]

Started work on the 2 din radio today:

It's in there, but holy momma it's a tight fit!

All thats been done so far is fit the hole in the dash and cut the divider bar out of the extra center stack bezelI bought (so I can put my orginal back in if I need to).

As it stands, the opening is still too large to fit the radio. Called it for the night, but tomorrow I'm going to look at slotting the holes for the heater control unti so I can shift it down a few MM's. If it doesn't give me enough room, I'll have to look at cutting hte top of the opening and trying to shift it up to clear the top of the radio. I only need about another 2-3 mm to fit, so I should be able to get it with shifting the heater control down a little bit. Then it's a little plastic welding to make the opening look finished.

I didn't get as far as expected because when I go tthe old head unit out, the wiring in the dash was so butchered I'm surprised the car hadn't caught fire! Bare wires, things twisted together and power spliced all over the place. Someone had even hacked in a 12v auto plug, shoved an Xm power adapter in it and then vinyl taped the whole mess together. Some of hte wires had even rubbed through to the copper and there were arc burns on it! I've seen a Vette burn to the ground before, it's not a pretty sight to see fire and flames dripping on the ground as the fiberglass melts and burns.Scary stuff!

I also took the opportunity to pull the heater control apart, clean it all good and deep, replace a few burnt out bulbs, glue the temp display window back in place and then give it a good soaking in plastic protectant/rejuvenator.

 

[Tourmax]

Coming along nicely:

I couldn’t get enough clearance by just shifting the heater controls down, so I had to modify the bezel opening. Even then, it juuuuuusssstttt barely fits.

The objective is to get it all done with plastic welding. That way theres no filler to shrink, crack or break away later down the road.

I’m trying for an “OEM” look/finish. Key to that is doing my best to keep the oem curves, bevels and little surrounding channels In the plastic.

easier said than done though.....

 

[ddgermann]

Some great work going on there

 

[Tourmax]

First dust coat of paint:

Color is good, but I can see a few spots I’ll need to re-bodywork to get it perfectly smooth and clean like I want it.

A little spot putty, some wet sanding and a respray will make it perfect!

 

[Tourmax]

First trial fit:

Not bad, not bad at all!

It will look even better when I touch up the openings inside the small “channels” with a nice semi-gloss black. Should fill it out and give it a nice factory look.

First dust coat on the instrument bezel:

Also looks pretty good!

It will also get a coat of semi-gloss black around the gauges where the “channel” is in the plastic.

I’ll give it a day or two to harden up before taping it off for the black accents.

Coming out nicely. Should be a subtle, yet slick look.

 

[Hotrodron]

Welcome, I'm enjoying reading your novel, (Lol), your work & knowledge are very impressive and, informative....Looking forward to hearing more

 

[Tourmax]

Yep, looks pretty good to me!

It might be juuuust a touch to bright. A little too much on the “bright silver” side. I’ll have to get it out in the sun to know for sure.

Good thing about paint is a color change is just another 15 bucks away.



I am starting to have second thoughts on the black accents though. Not too sure about a big feild of black around the instruments and the small bar that seperates the radio and heater controls would essentially dissappear if painted black. The only part I’m sure that will go boack now is the outer edges, to match the way it is on the rest of the lower dash.

I need to let that one “percolate” for a while before spraying any black...

 

[LUVMYC7]

Amazing intro. Some very good points made and lots of good info.
Thanks for your intro.

 

[Tourmax]

Did a little more smoothing and tried a darker paint:

Hard to tell by looking at the pictures, but it is several shades darker than the last color.

The panels are just sitting in thier places for now. Still more work to do putting them back togther. I'm giving the paint another few hours to harden up before messing with them much more.

Bodywork is not perfect, but close enough for now. It still needs a little work around the new radio opening to get it just perfect. I can do that later on when the car is laid up for winter.

The color is "smoke metallic". Just enough of a subtle change from the black interior so someone looking in (and knows 'Vette's) will see something is different, but will have to think about it to put their finger on it.

The change is far more subtle than the last "silver", but I like it subdued.Couple of days to a week for it to harden up andI'll do the console and center stack black edging. The rest will stay "as is".

I like it!

Now to pop that ridiculous "crash pad" off the dash!

 

[C SEVEN GS Bob]

AWSOME Intro Tourmax. You sure know you way around cars and remind me a bit of my son. He's a genius when it comes to cars, bikes and airplanes (he's a pilot with Air Canada) .
Welcome to the group and Thank You for your service to our country.
Bob

 

[Zeeman28a]

Excellent write up. Enjoying the DIY. And the colour definitely looks much better the 2nd time around, looks more like it belongs. The first time was too much silver IMO.

 

[Tourmax]

Man, every where someone touched this car, it's F'd up!

Went to hook up the cheapo door speakers someone had installed in the door opening. They had pulled the speakers out of the Bose box and screwed in a couple "pyramid100" speakers. Sounds like something that might at least be half decent, right? Nope. Says 100W power but the entire speaker housing is small enough to fit in my palm! The magnet is even smaller so you know that 100W is a lie by at least 90 watts...

Well lets try them at least. Maybe they will do until my good speakers get here. Nope, they're F'd up too. If you push on the cone it will play. So the wires to the voice coil are obviously broken.

Then I look at pulling the 500 lb bose speaker box out of the door since it's just dead weight.

Holy muther-fu****! Who designed this monstrous kludge?!?! I pretty much have to take the entire door apart just to get the housing out! Stupid GM.....stupid, stupid, STUPID GM!



I've never liked the way GM engineers things and every time I own one, I'm constantly reminded that GM can't engineer their way out of a wet paper bag. It's not that Ford doesn't make stupid decisions as well, but GM always seems to be one stupid design after another. Oh well, it is what it is. I'll deal with it to sample the stellar handling hidden in that big, black, fiberglass body.

For now, I'm just going to stick a couple tiny co-axials in the openings. They're leftovers from a Touring bike system install, nothing special. Cheap little 40W jobbies. But they will do for now. My Infinity speakers show up this week so it will just be a remove/replace when the time comes. Then it's wire up the amps and finally have some decent sound.

Oh, the PO's also broke the door panel in half. that's right, I said broken in half. Split from the front to the back, right at the carpet line. Looks like someone removed the screws in the bottom of the panel then reefed it up as hard as they could, probably trying to remove the panel. So I've got to plastic weld the door panel back together now.

This car is lucky that the basic car is still solid, because some PO has really f'd up everything else on this old bird.Broken stuff everywhere, poorly done everything, broken tabs, whatever screw they had lying around jammed in whatever spot they lost the original for, etc. It's been three days of finding one buck-shee fix (and putting it right) after another and all I'm trying to do is install a head unit! I'm begining to wonder how much I'm going to have to fix before the Vette is up to at least my most basic standards. Which would be run right, stop right handle right and not catch on fire!LOL!

As it turns out, seems this old Vette needed me more than I ever could have known......someone who would do things right the first time around and "exorcise" all the PO's sins.

 

[Darrellg1]

Man, every where someone touched this car, it's F'd up!

Went to hook up the cheapo door speakers someone had installed in the door opening. They had pulled the speakers out of the Bose box and screwed in a couple "pyramid100" speakers. Sounds like something that might at least be half decent, right? Nope. Says 100W power but the entire speaker housing is small enough to fit in my palm! The magnet is even smaller so you know that 100W is a lie by at least 90 watts...

Well lets try them at least. Maybe they will do until my good speakers get here. Nope, they're F'd up too. If you push on the cone it will play. So the wires to the voice coil are obviously broken.

Then I look at pulling the 500 lb bose speaker box out of the door since it's just dead weight.

Holy muther-fu****! Who designed this monstrous kludge?!?! I pretty much have to take the entire door apart just to get the housing out! Stupid GM.....stupid, stupid, STUPID GM!



I've never liked the way GM engineers things and every time I own one, I'm constantly reminded that GM can't engineer their way out of a wet paper bag. It's not that Ford doesn't make stupid decisions as well, but GM always seems to be one stupid design after another. Oh well, it is what it is. I'll deal with it to sample the stellar handling hidden in that big, black, fiberglass body.

For now, I'm just going to stick a couple tiny co-axials in the openings. They're leftovers from a Touring bike system install, nothing special. Cheap little 40W jobbies. But they will do for now. My Infinity speakers show up this week so it will just be a remove/replace when the time comes. Then it's wire up the amps and finally have some decent sound.

Oh, the PO's also broke the door panel in half. that's right, I said broken in half. Split from the front to the back, right at the carpet line. Looks like someone removed the screws in the bottom of the panel then reefed it up as hard as they could, probably trying to remove the panel. So I've got to plastic weld the door panel back together now.

This car is lucky that the basic car is still solid, because some PO has really f'd up everything else on this old bird.Broken stuff everywhere, poorly done everything, broken tabs, whatever screw they had lying around jammed in whatever spot they lost the original for, etc. It's been three days of finding one buck-shee fix (and putting it right) after another and all I'm trying to do is install a head unit! I'm begining to wonder how much I'm going to have to fix before the Vette is up to at least my most basic standards. Which would be run right, stop right handle right and not catch on fire!LOL!

As it turns out, seems this old Vette needed me more than I ever could have known......someone who would do things right the first time around and "exorcise" all the PO's sins.

Hey Tourax, sure sounds like your car had been in possession of a Bubba or two. I see Bubba wuz here on my car in a few spots. It drives me nuts, some one with JUST enough knowledge to be dangerous, hackin and whackin on a beautiful car on Saturdays. Things ta see when ya don't have a potato gun lol. ....Gotta be passive these days, so its a potato instead of anything else lol.
Reminds me of a few Sea King pilots after they broke something. Same kinda look lol. "Dunno....its broke". Ive heard that more than a few times. The car came to you because it needs the attention only you can give bud....Let er rip!