Ridiculous, unfair taxation

[LE BARON]

The ELECTRIC C8 is coming! They will put a huge speaker in the back seat and play the pre-recorded sound of a real gasoline powered C8 on high volume, that rises and falls to the motion of the adjustable rheostat under your right foot!

That will be an unfortunate day.
But I'll have to side with the greenies on this, a necessary step. Doubt if anyone would want to buy a "high performance" Vette through. Imagine the mods you could do to the rheostat to tailor the sound you want. LOL
Will give another meaning to going outside for a whiz. LOL

Must say this thread is getting sidetracked form the original post though.

 

[DavidWG]

Yep I expect fossil fuels will be the major energy source for most of OUR remaining lives but that is a relatively short period. I suspect that even then we will still see lots of specialty vehicles still using gasoline into the future just like we still see massive fleets of sailboats used for recreational purposes all over the world and major racing events including circumnavigations using sail power. But I predict that in 50 years there will be a dramatic reduction in the use of fossil fuels. In the short run it is very hard to predict. I am still holding investments in the oil industry but am getting tired of looking at them decline year after year for the past 5 years. My grandfather who was a fisherman all his life used to tell me about the difficult and emotional transition that he and his brother had to make as they moved their fishing boats from sail power to gasoline engines all within his 50+ year work life.

 

[Vette1993]

LE BARON is correct though. We are sliding away from the original intent of this post. I am now looking at cars from Quebec only, just to save the extra unnecessary costs that I would incur by looking to buy in Ontario. Isn't that a violation of some basic right of freedom in this country? Ya think?

 

[DavidWG]

LE BARON is correct though. We are sliding away from the original intent of this post. I am now looking at cars from Quebec only, just to save the extra unnecessary costs that I would incur by looking to buy in Ontario. Isn't that a violation of some basic right of freedom in this country? Ya think?

There are an amazing number of quiet trade barriers between provinces especially around alcohol. I think there was a major court case in the past year or two about someone in NB transporting alcohol from Quebec and the court ruled in favour of the guy. . I have purchased cars out of province in the past but never registered the vehicle in the province of purchase. It has been a number of years since I did it but I know at one point I did get a transit permit that didn't require me to pay tax in the province of sale. But I did have a bit of a challenge in getting insurance but finally did. I know it was a bit complicated at the time but I never did have to pay duplicate taxes. Probably the easiest option is to find a little guy who has a used car dealer license and pay him a bit to process the transaction though his books and lend you a dealer plate for a few days. He would probably want you to get your own insurance. Good luck!!!

 

[LE BARON]

LE BARON is correct though. We are sliding away from the original intent of this post. I am now looking at cars from Quebec only, just to save the extra unnecessary costs that I would incur by looking to buy in Ontario. Isn't that a violation of some basic right of freedom in this country? Ya think?

When I got started out on my own Vette journey I was looking at a 14GS in Ottawa. Because they are just across the river they were willing to get it inspected and transfer plate issued in Hull (Gatineau). So if you are close to the border and a friendly dealer it is not too bad. Other than that I could have had it transported home on a flatbed and got it temp plated and inspected here. Something to consider but expensive transport

 

[Dave91TM]

Its a WTF for sure. IMO its the provinces wanting you to buy within the province to protect the coffers of the provinces car dealers.
Their attitude is if you buy it near home you just pay 1 tax.
Its not all bad though. My dad willed his 66 Alpine to my brother. My brother decided he did not want it and gave it to my son. The MTO said gifting uncle to nephew is not permitted , but father to son is. So we got a note from my brother gifting the car to me under the umbrella of dads will. Then we went back to MTO and they actually did a complete ownership transfer to me, which I then signed and gifted to my son. I thought it was quite co-operative of them, but they did charge for 2 ownership transfers as well as $25 for a commissioners signature. All in it was about $180 but no taxes.

If they had not done it that way we would have had to provide a current appraisal and paid the cash grab taxes based on that.

 

[*ZR01#]

pretty sure BC does it. Sold a few cars and a boat going back to BC and they all asked me to “doctor” the bill of sale so they would pay less tax.....which I wanted no part of. Was vehicle shopping there this summer and the tax on a new one is insane.....GST, PST and luxury tax I think came to 23%...... imagine Having to pay that on a 100k car.... over 150K and the luxury tax hits 20%

Car Sales Taxes Across Canada on New & Used Cars

Thinking about buying a vehicle or upgrading for something better? Learn all about car sales tax across Canada and how you can use it to your advantage!

www.canadadrives.ca

That is nothing check all the taxes you pay for buying a house over in B.C. B.C. "Bring Cash" is not a misnomer but reality.

 

[seventyeight]

I am writing this in abject disgust and resentment that governments (Quebec and Ontario) have a system in place that unfairly charges tax on vehicular sales pertaining to those over 25 years of age. I have just sold my 86 Vette, and the purchaser was obliged to have the car evaluated before getting it plated. The reason...so the government could collect more tax dollars(9.975%) on the sale of the car. This car was sold probably 4 times since it was new, and each time the government collected on it. As these vehicles over 25 years are no longer "on-the-books", one was able to pay far less, as both parties would set an agreed price before going to the DMV. Although not "ethical" at least the government would collect something. Now they collect far more than what the car was purchased for new! For example, a 1963 Corvette, around $6000 new, now sells for $60000. Well, they now collect provincially and federally in spades, for no other reason than a money grab.
Now comes the next best part. A vehicle inspection in Ontario, even though it was done recently, is not valid or recognized in Quebec, and vise versa. So now another money grab ($85.00 approx) takes place. So, here I am, a guy in Montreal, who locates a nice Vette in the Ottawa area, decides to go check it out with a good chance of purchasing it. I checked with Service Ontario as to how to get this car back to Quebec. He "thinks" I need a Quebec temporary permit to be able to bring it home. Well, the Quebec (SAAQ) counterpart says no. I will need to have a transit permit issued by Ontario, pay all taxes pertaining to an Ontario automobile purchase, based on an evaluation. Then, I have to arrange for a Quebec Motor Vehicle Inspection, then go purchase my license plate, whereby I must pay (again)the taxes based on the evaluation. No one said if I can apply for a refund of the Ontario taxes, as I am not a resident of Ontario. At the same time...all this must be done by appointment only, as we are obviously in the middle of Covid19. So I probably would be able to finally drive this car somewhere before the end of October, just in time to put it away for the winter. Needless to say, I had to beg off this purchase.
This crap has been quietly slipped past us as a means of extra taxation. Anyone who dabbles in collectable, vintage, special interest cars will be unfairly bilked by this regulation. Any company that specializes in vintage replacement parts, performance parts, specialty restoration shops, manufacturing unique auto parts, all will be affected by this, as many people in the old car hobby will be afraid to get involved, as it will be harder to obtain or sell a vintage or collector vehicle. Revenues in the aftermarket auto industry will fall if people will be "nickled and dimed" out of the market by the very same governments that glean millions of dollars of income out of this sector of the auto industry annually.
So in closing, I ask all of you fellow car buffs (and nuts) to figure out as to how to create some sort of a protest, a petition of sorts, that we can all sign and embarrass these governments into reversing this nonsense. Perhaps a sliding scale of taxation that reduces based on the year of the vehicle and it's general condition. I'm not opposed to some form of tax, nor to a vehicle inspection, but when you look around, there are some serious rotboxes out there endangering the population, whereas most collector car enthusiasts generally maintain their vehicles far better than the average person. Don't penalize those who enjoy the collector car hobby.

You guys need to learn how to beat the system. I have, on all my used car purchases.

 

[Vette1993]

I have a way to "beat the system", just don't want to make it public here. The fact that I have to "use" a system at all is what I am disgusted with and thus wrote this story. I have since bought another Vette, from Ontario, and used this system to acquire it. Just wish I new about it earlier.

 

[Rruuff Day]

I have a way to "beat the system", just don't want to make it public here. The fact that I have to "use" a system at all is what I am disgusted with and thus wrote this story. I have since bought another Vette, from Ontario, and used this system to acquire it. Just wish I new about it earlier.

Thinking you should share your way to beat the system by private message with all 4,661 members Vette....

 

[Bixter44]

When I picked up my Vette in Moncton, I had to pay their taxes, as well as the sales taxes in MB. New Brunswick was quick to refund all of it, after I got back to MB, and filled out the forms. I had to get the car Safetied in MB even though it passed a safety in Moncton. MB does not recognize a NB safety. I wouldn't recognize it either. It is a yearly event there for everyone and the safety is a joke. There are 10 items looked at on the form and a check mark beside them. I failed the MB safety. My left back tire was bald in the center. No, I didn't do it. I was flying way too fast considering the condition of that tire, but no smoke shows. I didn't look at the tires before I started my flight home on them. They passed the NB safety, right? I looked at the New Brunswick safety. Beside Tires there was a check mark, so yup, it had tires.

 

[TCinthe6]

What gets my blood boiling are incoming taxes like the increase to the carbon tax that is around the corner. To impose further tax on the people when our unemployment rate is in the crapper, and our dept to GDP ratio is at a record high...that is beyond reason and serves as a reminder of why I cannot vote to the left on any front.

 

[KLinNBC]

I know of no way to "beat the system" other than lying about the actual transaction price. Over my business career I heard many times from people "beating the system" by lying on their GST returns. Just plain stupid, too easy to get nailed... which most did at some point.

I also despair of the multiple layers of overlapping and unjustified taxation in this freaking country of sheeple. But not for the usual reasons: I would happily pay MORE tax if my tax went into actual improvements to my medical care, better roads, environmental action. Hey, maybe actual care and oversight for our elders! It never happens; it all just goes to building more bureaucracy, more silly servants doing less than serving us. They convince us of the need for more "oversight" to the point that we have more paper pushers than doctors and nurses. And every one of those useless f*3!k5 will collect a gold plated pension that you and I are paying for until we are underwater. There are now 4 basic classes in most western nations (this isn't just a Canadian problem): the lower class, the middle class, the upper class and the government class (which is pretty much the new upper-middle class). There is no democracy, we elect vacuous celebrities (JT) and self-serving, poll-driven righteous twats (E o'T) who have no interest in anything but getting re-elected. They are paid by and propped up by the bureaucracy, they are shills to hide the real power. It's an incesteous relationship established decades ago. Remember when we had 3 levels of govvamint? Wee now we have 4. I believe it started in Ontario and with it's success (like Market Value Assessment, the biggest tax scam of all time) every other bureaucracy cottoned onto it. "wow! look at what these guys did! We need that too!" Now qwe have Regoinal districts or Regional municipalities or MRCs. Jesus, the population in my generally depressed are has been static for over 70 years (about 60,000) . But we now have a regional govvamint that employs over 400 6 figure droids. And has more complicated rules about my garbage that the owners manual to my C7. We are seriously screwed.

All you poor suckers that think this is a left or right political thing are being duped. Look at your cost of livin, your property and income taxes over many years, decades of different governments, Ontario, Quebec, BC, Alberta. I have had personal and business experience in all of those over decades and I can tell you it made no significant difference to my tax situation with regard to who was in power. Because who I thought and you may think is in power isn't really in power. Used to watch a BBC series called "Yes Minister". Thought it was hilarious. Not anymore, it was a Kafka-esk nightmare and I missed it...

As I write this I'm looking at notice of tax increases from local government and power increases approved by provincial authorities for 2021. I thought we were all in this together, all had to sacrifice and pull together. Well, apparently not.

 

[YFCvii]

Keeping Life Simple ...

I will complain endlessly not paying enough income tax (like in 2020)
AND
I will never vocalize complaining about paying too much income tax or sales tax.
because I am very good at Math for not over-paying and that would then be too telling.

I realized how telling things can be while sitting back listening to seniors at a card table.

I have also decided that I will not tell the tax man how to spend revenue,
conditional that they don't tell me how I should spend what I have left over for me.

 

[LE BARON]

Keeping Life Simple ...

I will complain endlessly not paying enough income tax (like in 2020)
AND
I will never vocalize complaining about paying too much income tax or sales tax.
because I am very good at Math for not over-paying and that would then be too telling.

I realized how telling things can be while sitting back listening to seniors at a card table.

I have also decided that I will not tell the tax man how to spend revenue,
conditional that they don't tell me how I should spend what I have left over for me.

What! You have some left. Watch out SN, they'll be getting out their toteing calculators to see what they missed. LOL

 

[LE BARON]

I know of no way to "beat the system" other than lying about the actual transaction price. Over my business career I heard many times from people "beating the system" by lying on their GST returns. Just plain stupid, too easy to get nailed... which most did at some point.

I also despair of the multiple layers of overlapping and unjustified taxation in this freaking country of sheeple. But not for the usual reasons: I would happily pay MORE tax if my tax went into actual improvements to my medical care, better roads, environmental action. Hey, maybe actual care and oversight for our elders! It never happens; it all just goes to building more bureaucracy, more silly servants doing less than serving us. They convince us of the need for more "oversight" to the point that we have more paper pushers than doctors and nurses. And every one of those useless f*3!k5 will collect a gold plated pension that you and I are paying for until we are underwater. There are now 4 basic classes in most western nations (this isn't just a Canadian problem): the lower class, the middle class, the upper class and the government class (which is pretty much the new upper-middle class). There is no democracy, we elect vacuous celebrities (JT) and self-serving, poll-driven righteous twats (E o'T) who have no interest in anything but getting re-elected. They are paid by and propped up by the bureaucracy, they are shills to hide the real power. It's an incesteous relationship established decades ago. Remember when we had 3 levels of govvamint? Wee now we have 4. I believe it started in Ontario and with it's success (like Market Value Assessment, the biggest tax scam of all time) every other bureaucracy cottoned onto it. "wow! look at what these guys did! We need that too!" Now qwe have Regoinal districts or Regional municipalities or MRCs. Jesus, the population in my generally depressed are has been static for over 70 years (about 60,000) . But we now have a regional govvamint that employs over 400 6 figure droids. And has more complicated rules about my garbage that the owners manual to my C7. We are seriously screwed.

All you poor suckers that think this is a left or right political thing are being duped. Look at your cost of livin, your property and income taxes over many years, decades of different governments, Ontario, Quebec, BC, Alberta. I have had personal and business experience in all of those over decades and I can tell you it made no significant difference to my tax situation with regard to who was in power. Because who I thought and you may think is in power isn't really in power. Used to watch a BBC series called "Yes Minister". Thought it was hilarious. Not anymore, it was a Kafka-esk nightmare and I missed it...

As I write this I'm looking at notice of tax increases from local government and power increases approved by provincial authorities for 2021. I thought we were all in this together, all had to sacrifice and pull together. Well, apparently not.

Hey KL! We pretty well think the same. I can't complain about paying the taxes so much as to how the money is "spent" - read wasted. No fault with paying EI, welfare, medicare, income taxes (we get to pay two here in QC), etc. etc. It is just when you hear about someone on welfare complaining that the new place they moved in to had a white fridge and they wanted a colour one. They got it.
Or when you see the welfare cheques come in and the recipient is off to the local convenience store to buy some baloney and bread for the kids and the rest goes in to the video terminal. Then they complain they don't have enough money to feed the family. Remember reading in the paper back around 1975 where a family with ten kids was complaining about not enough money to feed the family with the welfare money. She was pregnant with #11
So I think pretty much like you do. Not against the left wing social systems we have in place (EI. Medicare, welfare, etc.) it is just the way it is administered and the potential for corruption within the system.
One reason why cash is still KING

 

[YFCvii]

What! You have some left. Watch out SN, they'll be getting out their toteing calculators to see what they missed. LOL

They assess missing nothing as I am good with the math.
I can see how tax can be cross-referenced for flagging as I do both my Corp T2 and Individual T4s/T1.
I never anticipated the meaning and despairing feeling of NOT "paying enough income tax" due to covid last year
even with appreciation of the humor for relating to it at the same time.

I just see it that the only way one pays more income tax is to make more money.
I will always be first in line for that. Even with the "nice tax people from overseas"
who keep phoning me all the time to offer a bed and food while in jail.

 

[GMJim]

Yeah tax, tax tax and then there's TAX ON TAX. We don't want this crap in Ontario either. If the residing government did away with tax on resale cars they would make it up in other ways. Tell your kids to use cash to buy things. The younger generation is pushing for a cashless society using their cell phones and the government will know about every nickle they spend! They need to be educated!

 

[LE BARON]

Yeah tax, tax tax and then there's TAX ON TAX. We don't want this crap in Ontario either. If the residing government did away with tax on resale cars they would make it up in other ways. Tell your kids to use cash to buy things. The younger generation is pushing for a cashless society using their cell phones and the government will know about every nickle they spend! They need to be educated!

YEP! That's the idea. Once we go cashless then the governments or hackers know everything you are doing.
And it has been around already for many years. And here were lead to believe our personal information was private. HAHAHA

 

[KLinNBC]

Hey KL! We pretty well think the same.

Not really, I don't think welfare fraud is a big factor. It isn't right but it's not a significant factor in your taxes. It's the salaries, benefits and pensions for the condescending managers and clerks at the SAQ, the army of paper-pushers at the CNESST trying to apply the highest rates to flower shops and dog spas , the cabal of deputy ministers living like kings. The HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of government teat suckers who vastly outnumber the entire welfare role. Some might say they constitute another welfare role...

BTW I played a gig with a band in Farnham back in 1975.