Featured Lost a Sale but...

[AxeZ06]

In ON there's no "Book" for motorcycles like they have for cars & trucks. Hence so many people pay $100. Last bike I sold ($12k) was less than 1yr old. Buyer put $250 on his bos and paid tax on that. I had a legit bos with his sig.......just in case.
Other provinces might be different.

 

[Cariboocreek]

So an update....

Fellow from Newfoundland texted me last night. Wants the bike. Prepared to pay the taxes. Bike sold.

 

[YFCvii]

Happy Dance Time

 

[Cariboocreek]

Happy Dance Time
View attachment 39013

Why did my wife send you that video?

 

[nascar03]

Our friend Jack Black.

graham

 

[00fxd]

Fairness and honesty works both ways. Most people don’t mind paying taxes for the good of all. It’s a very sad situation tho when the citizens of a land are so overtaxed that they feel forced to cheat in the name of fairness. When we experience the overtaxing and then the squandering of their hard earned tax $ it’s really no surprise, especially these days in this country. I personally am not comfortable doing these things but I hold no ill will to those that do.

 

[rs2.bull]

Buddy is a moron, obviuosly doesn't understand how the laws work in his own province. I lived there for 5 years, I'm familiar with how the NL gov't screws you. It's pretty much the same way the NS gov't screws you.

You could have sold it to him and given him a bill of sale for a grand with no issues on your end. Here's why:

The issue would have been for buddy boy when he tried to register it. NL does what NS does with used vehicles. You basically pay taxes based on what the "book value" is. What you actually paid for the vehicle is pretty much irrelevant.

There are a couple ways around that, but a "bill of sale"is not one of them. The only real way is to have the vehicle appraised by a certified appraiser. This is what i had to do (in NS) when I bought my 88. DMV said book value was 55 grand (!!!!) but I was ready for them (done this dance before) and I had an appraisal for 5 grand in my hands. I paid taxes on 5 grand.

Bill of sale only really comes into the equation if the sale price is higher than the book value, in which case you pay taxes on the higher valuation.

from the NL tax info/veh registration web site:

"Vehicle Valuations

Retail sales tax shall be paid on the value of the vehicle as determined at the time of acquisition. For taxation purposes, that value is deemed to be the greater of the actual purchase price or the average wholesale value as determined by the Minister. For vehicles considered as salvage or wrecked vehicles under the Highway Traffic Act, the Minister may choose another method of determining value for tax purposes.

Tax Payable

Where the actual purchase price is less than the average wholesale value, retail sales tax will be charged on the higher value. However, at the time of transfer of ownership a person may submit an affidavit, signed by the seller and purchaser of the vehicle, attesting to the actual purchase price and pay sales tax on that lesser amount. The affidavit must be sworn to before a Commissioner of Oaths, a Justice of the Peace or a Notary Public.

A person who pays retail sales tax on book value may submit the required affidavit at any time up to three years from purchase date of a vehicle and request a refund of the tax paid on the difference between book value and actual purchase price. Alternatively, a taxpayer who is not satisfied with the determined value for tax purposes or who cannot provide the required affidavit, may obtain a written appraisal, at the taxpayer’s expense, from an approved appraiser. The appraisal must be obtained within 5 days of vehicle acquisition. Where an acceptable appraisal is provided, the valuation for tax will be the greater of the actual purchase price or the appraised value. A person dissatisfied with a valuation for tax purposes may also appeal in writing to the Minister of Finance for a review of that valuation. "

As you can see by the last few lines, if he wanted to pay less tax with an appraisal, he'd have to get the appraiser to lie about it. That's not going to happen, most appraisers won't risk their accreditation on it.

All this is on the buyer, nothing is on the seller.

So basically, the gov't has set it up that they will get thier pound of flesh. Whether it's justified or not. They did it many years ago for the very reason buddy boy wanted a BoS for a grand; they knew people were lying about purchase prices and went to taxing the book values instead of the claimed purchase price.

Buddy boy doesn't have a clue......I would have sold it to him and let him do the dance with his prov gov't.

Or, if you wanted to be a real "P", tell him yes and when he gets there to take the bike hand him the registration with the actual sale price written in. He can either ride the bike home, or buy himself a return plane ticket.....either way, when he gets home he's still going to have to pay book value for taxes.

But, truthfully, you're probably better off not making that sale. Sounds like chumly is nothing but a problem and you would likely hear back from him if ANYTHING went wrong. From a broken clip to an engine blowing up.....best to just avoid those types of guys.

In Ontario, the MTO does not have values on bikes or power toys ....only vehicles. You pay taxes on your BOS for these.

 

[Blu427]

I had a similar experience when selling my '63 split window.
We agreed on price he came with cash and wanted a receipt for just over
half of the price. I refused, he walked.
A month later a new guy saw my car and made an offer that was $9000
more than the deal I had the previous month with full receipt.
So it pays to be honest.
If everyone paid their fair share we would all pay less!!

 

[AndrexT]

He emailed this morning and walked from the deal. Too bad cause selling a toy in this market will be tough, but some things are just not worth it.

A way to keep the deal and integrity. Make him a bill of sale in Microsoft Word, write your signature on paper and scan it. You can then insert it into the document as an image, or you can just 'sign it' in Lucida Handwriting font. Then email it to him. He can do with the file what he likes. In the email your can say "is this bill of sale okay for you"? Put in it 'sold as seen, not guaranteed to be roadworthy'. That is his 'let out' for saying he bought it for spares or to restore.

Or, you can forget the bill of sale and just give him the registration document, made out to him.

I bought a boat locally of a guy's driveway, registered the boat and trailer in my name, paid the registration fee and thought no more about it. About 6 months later I got a bill for GST of about $600. I didn't think it was right to pay taxes on privately purchased secondhand items, so I ignored it. I never heard anything more.

 

[kerry4]

I guess for me it was an ethical issue. Its actually lying.

My father always said that integrity is what you do when nobody is watching.

Our fathers were wise men. Mine used to say never trust a fart or a politician. With what we are dealing with now it has a lot more meaning for me. LOL.

 

[Rouge Rider]

Buddy is a moron, obviuosly doesn't understand how the laws work in his own province. I lived there for 5 years, I'm familiar with how the NL gov't screws you. It's pretty much the same way the NS gov't screws you.

You could have sold it to him and given him a bill of sale for a grand with no issues on your end. Here's why:

The issue would have been for buddy boy when he tried to register it. NL does what NS does with used vehicles. You basically pay taxes based on what the "book value" is. What you actually paid for the vehicle is pretty much irrelevant.

There are a couple ways around that, but a "bill of sale"is not one of them. The only real way is to have the vehicle appraised by a certified appraiser. This is what i had to do (in NS) when I bought my 88. DMV said book value was 55 grand (!!!!) but I was ready for them (done this dance before) and I had an appraisal for 5 grand in my hands. I paid taxes on 5 grand.

Bill of sale only really comes into the equation if the sale price is higher than the book value, in which case you pay taxes on the higher valuation.

from the NL tax info/veh registration web site:

"Vehicle Valuations

Retail sales tax shall be paid on the value of the vehicle as determined at the time of acquisition. For taxation purposes, that value is deemed to be the greater of the actual purchase price or the average wholesale value as determined by the Minister. For vehicles considered as salvage or wrecked vehicles under the Highway Traffic Act, the Minister may choose another method of determining value for tax purposes.

Tax Payable

Where the actual purchase price is less than the average wholesale value, retail sales tax will be charged on the higher value. However, at the time of transfer of ownership a person may submit an affidavit, signed by the seller and purchaser of the vehicle, attesting to the actual purchase price and pay sales tax on that lesser amount. The affidavit must be sworn to before a Commissioner of Oaths, a Justice of the Peace or a Notary Public.

A person who pays retail sales tax on book value may submit the required affidavit at any time up to three years from purchase date of a vehicle and request a refund of the tax paid on the difference between book value and actual purchase price. Alternatively, a taxpayer who is not satisfied with the determined value for tax purposes or who cannot provide the required affidavit, may obtain a written appraisal, at the taxpayer’s expense, from an approved appraiser. The appraisal must be obtained within 5 days of vehicle acquisition. Where an acceptable appraisal is provided, the valuation for tax will be the greater of the actual purchase price or the appraised value. A person dissatisfied with a valuation for tax purposes may also appeal in writing to the Minister of Finance for a review of that valuation. "

As you can see by the last few lines, if he wanted to pay less tax with an appraisal, he'd have to get the appraiser to lie about it. That's not going to happen, most appraisers won't risk their accreditation on it.

All this is on the buyer, nothing is on the seller.

So basically, the gov't has set it up that they will get thier pound of flesh. Whether it's justified or not. They did it many years ago for the very reason buddy boy wanted a BoS for a grand; they knew people were lying about purchase prices and went to taxing the book values instead of the claimed purchase price.

Buddy boy doesn't have a clue......I would have sold it to him and let him do the dance with his prov gov't.

Or, if you wanted to be a real "P", tell him yes and when he gets there to take the bike hand him the registration with the actual sale price written in. He can either ride the bike home, or buy himself a return plane ticket.....either way, when he gets home he's still going to have to pay book value for taxes.

But, truthfully, you're probably better off not making that sale. Sounds like chumly is nothing but a problem and you would likely hear back from him if ANYTHING went wrong. From a broken clip to an engine blowing up.....best to just avoid those types of guys.

Spot on. Bill of sale is irrelevant if a book value is the final analysis. Here in Ontario the UVIP package is king regardless of what your receipt indicates. A valid appraisal is what makes the difference.