Storage options from scratch for winter

[2018carbonz06]

I'm getting very discouraged planning a shelter... I'm wanting to build a garage which is still currently my plan. I've got tonnes of space to do so. I live on acreage. All our driveways are just crushed gravel. I know this is not ideal for any car especially not this one... So my plan was to get the footings and slab poured, then build away. Talking to my concrete guy its gonna cost me about $7k probably to get footings and slab poured. I was planning a 16'x32' footprint as I figured I could squeeze my scissor lift in the back and use the extra dry storage. Building this myself its probably gonna end up being a $15k endeavor. I really was not hoping to spend this much. I've built many outdoor buildings usually 14'x24' myself for about $6k all said and done just on pier blocks with wood foundation, insulated, shingle roof, smarty board siding.

My end all question is does anyone have any suggestions for cheaper storage that will be relatively maintenance free? I don't want the undercarriage to rust, or the interior to mold. I want this car to be stored as new.. Just throwing ideas around before I jump in head over heels. Machines are ready and waiting here as were putting in some catch basins already to battle water in the crawlspace. Thanks for any input.

This is for a brand new 2018 z06.

 

[ddgermann]

Jump in with both feet....

Imagine your Z06 sitting outside at -40 under a tarp.....

enough said

 

[2018carbonz06]

Well said! Pretty much where I'm at... The cost of cement just surprised me. It is what it is. Costs money to play with the big boys!

 

[DavidWG]

Concrete is very cheap when you think of what you get. Someone has manufactured the cement in a half billion $ plant then delivered it many km in a cement tanker to another big plant where it is mixed with specially mined crushed stone and special sand. You place your order to the local plant with minimal advanced notice. Then it is loaded into a $200k truck and delivered to your site by a $50/hr driver who hangs around for an hour while you place the product. Quite a deal for probably under $100 M3. Since you are getting such a good deal don't cheap out on the quality of the concrete. Only use one of the bigger players in your area even if you have to pay a little more. The big players have recipes (mix designs) that are designed in labs to give best results and their plants are usually computer controlled to ensure consistency. You probably want to use fiber mesh in the mix and make sure that your rebar is not resting on the ground when they pour the concrete over it. It must be in the middle of the product. Talk to your supplier and tell him that you want the highest reasonable quality product as you want a great finish on it. Order a higher strength so that it does not chip the first time you drop a hammer on it. Make sure your concrete finisher is experienced and good and that you have appropriate saw cuts in it so that it cracks where you want it to crack - all concrete slabs crack! Yes I used to work in the concrete and cement business.

 

[Rruuff Day]

Concrete is very cheap when you think of what you get. Someone has manufactured the cement in a half billion $ plant then delivered it many km in a cement tanker to another big plant where it is mixed with specially mined crushed stone and special sand. You place your order to the local plant with minimal advanced notice. Then it is loaded into a $200k truck and delivered to your site by a $50/hr driver who hangs around for an hour while you place the product. Quite a deal for probably under $100 M3. Since you are getting such a good deal don't cheap out on the quality of the concrete. Only use one of the bigger players in your area even if you have to pay a little more. The big players have recipes (mix designs) that are designed in labs to give best results and their plants are usually computer controlled to ensure consistency. You probably want to use fiber mesh in the mix and make sure that your rebar is not resting on the ground when they pour the concrete over it. It must be in the middle of the product. Talk to your supplier and tell him that you want the highest reasonable quality product as you want a great finish on it. Order a higher strength so that it does not chip the first time you drop a hammer on it. Make sure your concrete finisher is experienced and good and that you have appropriate saw cuts in it so that it cracks where you want it to crack - all concrete slabs crack! Yes I used to work in the concrete and cement business.

Was that a few years ago David? Or Ontario in general. Inland concrete in Calgary area for driveway/garage pad 32mpa is $ 273.00 /m3 for 80mm slump...
$ 10.00 more for 140mm slump....

I would guess Mission BC, where 2018Carbon is from is not much less...

 

[DavidWG]

Sorry I meant $200 /m3 and yes that was for a major metropolitan area where producers get major efficiencies of scale as their plants are generally running flat out and where cement supplies are readily available. The price you quote is not unreasonable for a smaller center. I would have a chat with someone from your supplier and tell them what is important to you in terms of end result and performance you want. for instance if you plan to paint the floor eventually you may want to reduce moisture penetration from under the slab or you may want a polished surface. Many features of concrete can be enhanced by the mix design for not a lot of $$. Yes it would be a lot if you were putting up a 30 story condo or a 6 pad ice surface but for your application we are not talking much. Good luck, sounds like a fun project.

 

[LE BARON]

I am not a concrete guy so feel free to confirm or refute these comments
1) I would consider putting a layer of high density foam insulation under the cement. It could help absorb any winter frost heaves from the ground. They do that on highway reconstruction now-a-days. Obviously would add to the cost
2) When I had my garage floor poured some thirty years ago I opted for a dyed colour (red) when they floated the cement. Some thirty odd years later it is still red and has not been subject to chipping or galling. Again a bit more expensive up front but you won't have to repaint every few years and as I mentioned the colour is stable.
3) Sounds like you will not be heating the garage so the temperature could be equal to outside temps. GM states that the tires are subject to cracking below 25F so you might want to consider jacking the car and moving the tires in to the house (bedroom) or basement if the missus complains.

Again, just my nickels worth (no more pennies) so I may be out in left field on this

Regards

LE BARON

 

[DavidWG]

First we are all going to have to start by calling it by the correct name - the hardened stuff is concrete. The cement is the binding agent that goes into concrete, the grey powder.
Suggestions #1 & 2 are excellent and great value.

#3, my understanding is that the caution is regards to driving only. I have stored Vette tires below freezing for many years with no ill effects. I however, put two layers of cardboard between my tires and the concrete surface, mostly to stop them from sticking and lifting the paint when I move the car in the spring.

 

[LE BARON]

First we are all going to have to start by calling it by the correct name - the hardened stuff is concrete. The cement is the binding agent that goes into concrete, the grey powder.
Suggestions #1 & 2 are excellent and great value.

#3, my understanding is that the caution is regards to driving only. I have stored Vette tires below freezing for many years with no ill effects. I however, put two layers of cardboard between my tires and the concrete surface, mostly to stop them from sticking and lifting the paint when I move the car in the spring.

I bought a 4 X 8 rubber mat. Very heavy rubber, I would think over 100LBS for the mat. I then cut out a section for my son's outside step, he was missing one step, and the rest I cut in to four "squares" which go under the tires. I figure they have some "give" so they do not impact on the tires as much as a solid concrete floor would and are good insulators between the car and the concrete. I am sure people will say that insulation (electrical) is not needed but it makes me feel good about trying to do the best I can.

LE BARON

P.S. As I said, I am not a concrete expert and reverted to what is typically called cement. Also concrete will have a higher strength factor than normal "cement". There is a price difference for "real" concrete.

 

[YFCvii]

The concern of the concrete guy surprising you with a cost for slab and footings, is waving a flag.
Loose terms being thrown around is waving another flag. Comparing Buildings to Roads ... another flag.
Sorry, but I have to say that there are people able to specifically help you before anything progresses to pricing and subcontracting.
In BC, I am not sure if you are restricted to an Architect and/or Professional Engineer. I am Certified to do it in Alberta for going on 35 years now.
My recommendation is in your planning with a Professional, which normally starts with a study of the type of grade you are building on.
This determines your options for concrete walls on frost footings with a slab poured separately OR a continuously poured Concrete Slab with Grade Beam Perimeter (a floating slab).
Now it is important to know that Cement is to Concrete as Flour is to Bread for the DIY. You need a recipe for Concrete Strength - which is to take care of the forces in compression.
With Concrete Strength, a Design combination with steel reinforcement is required - which takes care of the tensional forces.
Might have to add ingredients that compensate for type of soil.
All of which is minimally and efficiently proposed to suit type of soil, soil bearing and your budget.
With this behind you, your building will have a safe and sound foundation.
Now onto the next building component ... for which you now have a "blueprint" of my livelihood which a DIY gets the best start from ...
... can't make anyone do it ... I'm also hired in Alberta to help those when on the other side of the fan too (with a greater overall cost though) ...

I applaud you for asking many questions ... it's my hope that your build is successful and meets all of your needs

... What I can 100% assure is that it's pretty cool that we are all driving Corvettes ...

 

[Riley P]

Off topic but on topic. I wound NOT suggest one of those temporary tarp shelters. I put my Chevelle and Corvette out at a fiends acreage using 12x20 portable shelters for each car. The corners got anchored with screw anchors, the feet in the middle got 3, 12” spikes, I made rafters using 2x4’s to triagulate the roof, 2 tie downs on each wall in a cross pattern to stop the roof from moving fore/aft, 1/4” cable in an x pattern in the roof to stop any torsion and used 4’ rebar bent in u’s where the doors zipper to the end walls to stop any movement there. Once the cars were in, I put 2x10 along the sides to keep the wind out.

The end result was a fail. In Fall and Spring with the freeze/thaw, water would condensate then freeze on all the interior surfaces. When the sun hit the shelter, the ice would melt and drip all over the cars. The humidity, due to sealing up the shelter, would be trapped in the building making the aluminum on the corvette tarnish, and further propagated any surface rust on the Chevelle. The second year, not yet understanding the humidity side yet, I put tarps in the rafters to direct water away from the cars. Long story short, the cars took an ass kicking and the shelters only lasted one year, developing tears in the fabric on year two.
If I had the funds, and had to do something quick, I’d rather have gone with a sea-can, or just bought an extremely good car cover and parked it on a pad, but parking your car outside sucks. I know this from the past 5 years. Luckily I found good winter storage and now finally have a garage for the summers.

 

[Rick9456]

Have you looked into car storage. I payed $200.00 a month, for a secure heated, storage locker a few years back. Might be an option while you get that garage built.

 

[Rruuff Day]

Of topic but on topic. I wound NOT suggest one of those temporary tarp shelters. I put my Chevelle and Corvette out at a fiends acreage using 12x20 portable shelters for each car. The corners got anchored with screw anchors, the feet in the middle got 3, 12” spikes, I made rafters using 2x4’s to triagulate the roof, 2 tie downs on each wall in a cross pattern to stop the roof from moving fore/aft, 1/4” cable in an x pattern in the roof to stop any torsion and used 4’ rebar bent in u’s where their doors zipper to stop any movement there. Once the cars were in, I put 2x10 along the sides to keep the wind out.
The end result was a fail. In Fall and Spring with the freeze/thaw, water would condensate then freeze on all the interior surfaces. When the sun hit the shelter, the ice would melt and drip all over the cars. The humidity, due to sealing would be trapped in the building making the aluminum on the corvette tarnish, and further propagated any surface rust on the Chevelle. The second year, not yet understanding the humidity side yet, I put tarps in the rafters to direct water away from the cars. Long story short, the cars took an ass kicking and the shelters only lasted one year, developing tears in the fabric on year two.

LOL.... sounds a bit like an engineering report on a test product....

 

[ddgermann]

Have you looked into car storage. I payed $200.00 a month, for a secure heated, storage locker a few years back. Might be an option while you get that garage built.

That’s a great idea Rick. One I considered as well but with 2 vehicles went with renting a double garage instead for slightly more.
The price for a heated secure storage for a 100K plus car is well worth it. Just consider the cost of the tires alone that “do not crack” in cold storage. The jury is still out on that one... 2 sets of tires later..

 

[LE BARON]

Have you looked into car storage. I payed $200.00 a month, for a secure heated, storage locker a few years back. Might be an option while you get that garage built.

Hi Rick;
Big cities must mean bog prices. I just put my friends car in to storage out here and it is around $75 per month X 6. I have even heard of less than that but then you start to get in to "what you get is what you pay for"
Luckily I get mine for free in my basement. Picture attached.

 

[YFCvii]

Of topic but on topic. I wound NOT suggest one of those temporary tarp shelters. I put my Chevelle and Corvette out at a fiends acreage using 12x20 portable shelters for each car. The corners got anchored with screw anchors, the feet in the middle got 3, 12” spikes, I made rafters using 2x4’s to triagulate the roof, 2 tie downs on each wall in a cross pattern to stop the roof from moving fore/aft, 1/4” cable in an x pattern in the roof to stop any torsion and used 4’ rebar bent in u’s where their doors zipper to stop any movement there. Once the cars were in, I put 2x10 along the sides to keep the wind out.
The end result was a fail. In Fall and Spring with the freeze/thaw, water would condensate then freeze on all the interior surfaces. When the sun hit the shelter, the ice would melt and drip all over the cars. The humidity, due to sealing would be trapped in the building making the aluminum on the corvette tarnish, and further propagated any surface rust on the Chevelle. The second year, not yet understanding the humidity side yet, I put tarps in the rafters to direct water away from the cars. Long story short, the cars took an ass kicking and the shelters only lasted one year, developing tears in the fabric on year two.
If I had the funds, and had to do something quick, I’d rather have gone with a sea-can, or just bought an extremely good car cover and parked it on a pad, but parking your car outside sucks. I know this from the past 5 years. Luckily I found good winter storage and now finally have a garage for the summers.

Hi Rick;
Big cities must mean bog prices. I just put my friends car in to storage out here and it is around $75 per month X 6. I have even heard of less than that but then you start to get in to "what you get is what you pay for"
Luckily I get mine for free in my basement. Picture attached.

Yup a little engineering and science ... With a great enough temperature difference on each side, the near sealed up portable shelter experiment exemplifies in part is why the soffits and the top of the roof are ventilated in our homes along with what many of us know with what happens when we touch the inside of a canvas tent when in the pouring rain ... side note : science experiments are much more fun though when you get to blow something up (after the cars are removed of course) ...

I wish we had large enough $75 per month storage in Alberta.

 

[Rick9456]

Hi Rick;
Big cities must mean bog prices. I just put my friends car in to storage out here and it is around $75 per month X 6. I have even heard of less than that but then you start to get in to "what you get is what you pay for"
Luckily I get mine for free in my basement. Picture attached.

Hi LeBaron,
I'm sure you can find them for less but for convience I went with a facility
in Richmond BC. All this company did was store cars. They also kept them clean, and fully charged. Like you I now have a nice warm place to store at home.

 

[LE BARON]

Hi LeBaron,
I'm sure you can find them for less but for convience I went with a facility
in Richmond BC. All this company did was store cars. They also kept them clean, and fully charged. Like you I now have a nice warm place to store at home.

And now when things get dull you can invite the friends over and sit around admiring the vette.
Washed mine last week on a day when I could have been out driving around. Not regretting it this week though as the temperature has turned to the colder side.
Will get busy with a few rock chips and then a though cleaning inside and wax job before I put the cover on.
Of course that comes off for the friends and beers

 

[YFCvii]

And now when things get dull you can invite the friends over and sit around admiring the vette.
Washed mine last week on a day when I could have been out driving around. Not regretting it this week though as the temperature has turned to the colder side.
Will get busy with a few rock chips and then a though cleaning inside and wax job before I put the cover on.
Of course that comes off for the friends and beers

Well boys .... it's a long drive for most of us .... but the man did say "beers"

 

[2018carbonz06]

Thanks for all the input everyone, I still have not decided to go ahead with the garage yet. I have not been on here in a while as I was enjoying the first bit of the possession. After careful consideration, I decided I need to do the shop proper with permits as it is gonna cost quite a bit and be very close to the street. Would hate to put all this time into it to cause a problem with the city. I may for the meantime build a properly secured carport and use a car cover inside it. (Not ideal I know, but I need some more time to think about this and I can get this built for the cost of some plastic tents lol) I will follow up with my future plans. Regards...