Motor work question

KevinB

Regular
C6 Owner
Sep 19, 2017
177
277
Freelton Ontario
0
VetteCoins
1,113
Car
2010 Coupe M6 Blade
Getting long tube headers, Stage 2 cam , cai and a tune...2010 is at 47k miles. Should I replace the harmonic balancer as preventative maintenance?
 

Rruuff Day

I think Spring is Close
Staff member
Moderator
Power User
Beta
C7 Owner
HOT Dealer
Aug 30, 2014
6,007
5,582
Pine Lake, Alberta
0
VetteCoins
13,024
Car
C7 3LT ZF1
Province / State
Alberta
Getting long tube headers, Stage 2 cam , cai and a tune...2010 is at 47k miles. Should I replace the harmonic balancer as preventative maintenance?
You might want to consider a new timing chain and oil pump as well if you are concerned about preventative maintenance.
47k miles or km? If it's miles and you've got it in the shop anyway, yes, yes, and yes. Better safe than sorry for long term peace of mind.... In those areas at least... If it's km, not as much of an issue.
 

Jeremiad

Regular
C6 Owner
May 19, 2016
645
831
Airdrie
0
VetteCoins
3,028
Car
2006 Z51
Province / State
Alberta
Yes, yes, and yes!

As an extension, I have to say that if you are replacing the cam, you should be doing the top end as well. I would of course advocate a complete heads and valvetrain swap - but at the very least, you should be looking at doing the lifters, pushrods, and rockers and springs.

Again, I will try to say things in a way that people can understand.

When you change out to an aftermarket camshaft, it is going to change the way that your engine is designed to work. More 'lift' from the larger lobes on the cam means that your lifters and pushrods are going to push higher than they are supposed to, and your valves are going to open further into the cylinder and for a longer duration. Maybe not a big deal, since they are simple devices (sort of - those hydraulic lifters are more complicated than you think), but the extra travel on your rocker arms and on your valve springs are very taxing. Especially when they were never designed to move that far, and they haven't had to for some forty seven thousand miles. Again, perhaps a poor comparison, but I am uh... old-ish... and trying to do the splits when I have never done so in my life is a whole lot of painful. Why would you think that your engine can just suddenly do it with no issues? Trust me. The weakest point WILL break.

I definitely recommend replacing the oil pump while you are in there. Oil is your engine's blood. Make sure it flows. Melling is my recommendation.

This is all in agreement with the above suggestions. If you are going to be separating the engine from the trans, then yes, replace the harmonic balancer - Of course you don't have to, but seriously, if you are there just do it. If you are putting in a cam, you should absolutely change your timing chain - this shouldn't even be a question. It's right there, and it has to come off to put the cam in. Yes, replace it with new. This goes along with any studs or bolts. Replace them with new - they are not expensive, but they are torque-spec'd, and they stretch to hold. Do not re-use them.

As a double-extension to the suggestions here, if you are indeed planning to replace the harmonic balancer, then you should consider a stall converter while you are in there. Opinions will vary on this, but I think that a very streetable range is around 3000-3400rpm. You will want some sticky tires, unless you like to smoke them on command.

Good luck with your project. Do it once, do it right, and enjoy the hell out of it.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Hotrodron

Rruuff Day

I think Spring is Close
Staff member
Moderator
Power User
Beta
C7 Owner
HOT Dealer
Aug 30, 2014
6,007
5,582
Pine Lake, Alberta
0
VetteCoins
13,024
Car
C7 3LT ZF1
Province / State
Alberta
We have people here?... :Hurray:
 
  • Agree
Reactions: ddgermann

KevinB

Regular
C6 Owner
Sep 19, 2017
177
277
Freelton Ontario
0
VetteCoins
1,113
Car
2010 Coupe M6 Blade
Yes, yes, and yes!

As an extension, I have to say that if you are replacing the cam, you should be doing the top end as well. I would of course advocate a complete heads and valvetrain swap - but at the very least, you should be looking at doing the lifters, pushrods, and rockers and springs.

Again, I will try to say things in a way that people can understand.

When you change out to an aftermarket camshaft, it is going to change the way that your engine is designed to work. More 'lift' from the larger lobes on the cam means that your lifters and pushrods are going to push higher than they are supposed to, and your valves are going to open further into the cylinder and for a longer duration. Maybe not a big deal, since they are simple devices (sort of - those hydraulic lifters are more complicated than you think), but the extra travel on your rocker arms and on your valve springs are very taxing. Especially when they were never designed to move that far, and they haven't had to for some forty seven thousand miles. Again, perhaps a poor comparison, but I am uh... old-ish... and trying to do the splits when I have never done so in my life is a whole lot of painful. Why would you think that your engine can just suddenly do it with no issues? Trust me. The weakest point WILL break.

I definitely recommend replacing the oil pump while you are in there. Oil is your engine's blood. Make sure it flows. Melling is my recommendation.

This is all in agreement with the above suggestions. If you are going to be separating the engine from the trans, then yes, replace the harmonic balancer - Of course you don't have to, but seriously, if you are there just do it. If you are putting in a cam, you should absolutely change your timing chain - this shouldn't even be a question. It's right there, and it has to come off to put the cam in. Yes, replace it with new. This goes along with any studs or bolts. Replace them with new - they are not expensive, but they are torque-spec'd, and they stretch to hold. Do not re-use them.

As a double-extension to the suggestions here, if you are indeed planning to replace the harmonic balancer, then you should consider a stall converter while you are in there. Opinions will vary on this, but I think that a very streetable range is around 3000-3400rpm. You will want some sticky tires, unless you like to smoke them on command.

Good luck with your project. Do it once, do it right, and enjoy the hell out of it.
Thanks for all the great info everyone. The Springs, lifters, pushrods etc are being upgraded as well. I don’t anticipate separating the motor from the trans to replace the harmonic balancer because it is on the front of the engine. A stall converter wouldn’t be necessary because it is a manual. I will research the oil pump idea.

In regards to the harmonic balancer...would you just replace it with a stock OEM part or a after market unit?

Again thanks for the suggestions!.....oh I could do the splits....ONCE😬
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ddgermann

KevinB

Regular
C6 Owner
Sep 19, 2017
177
277
Freelton Ontario
0
VetteCoins
1,113
Car
2010 Coupe M6 Blade
Well the quote is in....over 10k to do the full package as discussed above...long tube, Cam, CAI, valve work, Melling oil pump and new GM harmonic balancer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ddgermann

hemicat

Casual User
C5 Owner
Nov 5, 2018
77
128
Dalmeny
3
VetteCoins
2,034
Car
2003 Z06
Province / State
Saskatchewan
Are you going to get it dyno'd after the mods? It would be interesting to see what the results would be. I think you should be near 430 * 0.85 (15% loss thru driveline) stock = 365 rwhp?
 

KevinB

Regular
C6 Owner
Sep 19, 2017
177
277
Freelton Ontario
0
VetteCoins
1,113
Car
2010 Coupe M6 Blade
Yes...it will be tuned ....I am told 430 rwhp / .85 = 505.8 crhp....proof will be in the pudding so they say.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: hemicat

KevinB

Regular
C6 Owner
Sep 19, 2017
177
277
Freelton Ontario
0
VetteCoins
1,113
Car
2010 Coupe M6 Blade
Pretty well decided to do this work in stages, first the headers and cai with a tune. Later if I think I need it the cam. This is the best way to judge the difference mods are making. Maybe some ACS ground effects added on as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hemicat

Jeremiad

Regular
C6 Owner
May 19, 2016
645
831
Airdrie
0
VetteCoins
3,028
Car
2006 Z51
Province / State
Alberta
This is an excellent plan! Opening up the breathing on an LS3 is the best mod that you can do, and it is not as expensive as opening up the engine to start changing internal parts. It also keeps the original reliability, which is uh, significant.

A couple of years ago, @Tinman did ARH 1-7/8 longtubes and a cold-air intake on his '09, and picked up 44hp and 43 ft-lbs, and that is at 3600' elevation. In Ontario, you should see even better results with a significantly lower elevation.

The best part is that these modifications are the foundation for all other modifications to work better, so it is just up from here if you want to continue.

Post up your results (and your before and after s**t-eating grins)!
 
  • Like
Reactions: hemicat

Black 03 Z06

Staff member
Moderator
Power User
C5 Owner
Oct 30, 2013
6,583
5,821
Haliburton, Ontario
0
VetteCoins
12,378
Car
2003 Z06
Province / State
Ontario
Watching with interest as Kevin parts with his money. :Biggrin:

Really curious how this turns out for you Kevin, hope you will be happy with the results.

Next question from Kevin. My last set of tires did not seem to last long any suggestions on what to buy?

Spring is just around the corner when does the beast head for the shop Kevin?
 

KevinB

Regular
C6 Owner
Sep 19, 2017
177
277
Freelton Ontario
0
VetteCoins
1,113
Car
2010 Coupe M6 Blade
When I get home the first week of April I will make shop visits to the two I have been talking to and get a feel for what they are about. From there I will schedule a date in May or so. I then have an appointment to have solid rubber forklift tires installed in the rear......should solve that problem!
 

Black 03 Z06

Staff member
Moderator
Power User
C5 Owner
Oct 30, 2013
6,583
5,821
Haliburton, Ontario
0
VetteCoins
12,378
Car
2003 Z06
Province / State
Ontario
Now those tires I can get you a deal on Kevin.

Where the heck are you hiding out by the way?
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)