DrJer

DrJer

Active Member
Jul 23, 2012
188
2
Swift Current, Sk
VetteCoins
600
Car
1997 Coupe
561 rwhp/531 rwtq. at 8 psi.
615 rwhp/568 rwtq. at 8 psi. with Meth

I assume the main benefit is ability to run more timing... in addition to the additional fuel source and cooler/more dense charge...

I assume further that it'd be dangerous to run hard when/if the alky runs out? OR is it/can it be tuned to make gains when the meth is there and yet safe to run when empty? ie. ?the input temp sensor 'recognizes' and pulls timing... ie. with the calibration as is, could Colin run without Meth and make 561? or should he be checking the fluid level every morning he expects to step on it?
 
561 rwhp/531 rwtq. at 8 psi.
615 rwhp/568 rwtq. at 8 psi. with Meth

I assume the main benefit is ability to run more timing... in addition to the additional fuel source and cooler/more dense charge...

I assume further that it'd be dangerous to run hard when/if the alky runs out? OR is it/can it be tuned to make gains when the meth is there and yet safe to run when empty? ie. ?the input temp sensor 'recognizes' and pulls timing... ie. with the calibration as is, could Colin run without Meth and make 561? or should he be checking the fluid level every morning he expects to step on it?

I got the kit in to make sure things are kept nice and cool. I call it a little 'insurance'.
A side benefit is yes more timing for more power but a higher octane source.....resulting in no preignition or detonation. Apparently Methanol has an effective octane of 110!.

Good question about running out of meth. I know there's a light to indicate the level and one to make sure the system is working -- I have to believe that the tune is dependent on methanol to max performance. I don't believe that having no meth will damage the engine in any way especially since meth is injected in stages and starting at a boost pressure of 4 psi.
Having said that, I'll say that running no meth and boosting heavily on a meth tuned engine may be damaging.
Manny and Arun would have those answers (now you've got me wondering)

I do know the inlet air temp went down dramatically with meth (about 50F compared to no meth: 120F) but the retune and corresponding increase in ignition timing might necessitate meth for max performance and safely.
As to whether the computer will pull timing in the event of no meth, I can't say. (yet)

I'll have to discuss that with Manny and Arun.

Colin.
 
The tune is meth dependant and if the meth fails or runs out-it will pull timing and add fuel based on IAT temps.

It will pull alot of timing out so-you'll know something is wrong.

Here is a car that had the meth fail last year-it pulled timing down to 2.5 degrees and car lives to race another day.

Still not bad for 2.5 degrees of timing.

[yt]/chkL2LLoE8c[/yt]

Manny and I have discussed this and from now on we are going to order all our SC kits with the MAFless pipes and we can add the MAF and IAT in the locations we want for a cleaner install.

It will add a slight cost to kits but will look much nicer and neater and more factory looking under the hood.
 
The tune is meth dependant and if the meth fails or runs out-it will pull timing and add fuel based on IAT temps.

It will pull alot of timing out so-you'll know something is wrong.

Here is a car that had the meth fail last year-it pulled timing down to 2.5 degrees and car lives to race another day.

Still not bad for 2.5 degrees of timing.

[yt]/chkL2LLoE8c[/yt]

Manny and I have discussed this and from now on we are going to order all our SC kits with the MAFless pipes and we can add the MAF and IAT in the locations we want for a cleaner install.

It will add a slight cost to kits but will look much nicer and neater and more factory looking under the hood.

Definitive answers -- that's what I like -- thanks for posting about it Arun -- Sounds like we 'meth heads' are well covered by automatic (comp) adjustments. --
Sounds lke it might generate a CEL also?

As you say that yellow C5 without meth still ran a 10 -- not bad at all.

TNX again Arun.

C.(rash)
 
Awesome! Thanks for the answers. You'll definitely see my car this winter after I wear out some tires. I'm thinking heads/cam/F1 procharger swap :D

So to confirm, you could decide to intentionally run without meth thus accepting the pulled timing and accompaning loss of power if you wanted to? ie. the programmed/sensed data changes compensate effectively enough to keep things together/totally safe?

Or, it's OK to run without meth but not suggestable?
 
Awesome! Thanks for the answers. You'll definitely see my car this winter after I wear out some tires. I'm thinking heads/cam/F1 procharger swap :D

So to confirm, you could decide to intentionally run without meth thus accepting the pulled timing and accompaning loss of power if you wanted to? ie. the programmed/sensed data changes compensate effectively enough to keep things together/totally safe?

Or, it's OK to run without meth but not suggestable?

I would think so, DrJer -- that was a pretty hard pass that yellow C5 in the video made with no meth and it survived. (I'm just guessing of course) Arun will chime in when he sees this.

I certainly wouldn't be driving that hard if I happened to run out until the meth bottle was refilled.

There is an indicator light that signals the system is working and armed. and another light that shows that the meth is in fact being injected when the system is in use.

Along with that the windshield washer reservoir low fluid level indicator light works for the meth system, so there is warning long b4 running out.

C.
 
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It'd be interesting to know what it makes for power empty and/or if this is a final tuning run that Arun does. (Maybe would be an interesting experiment to try). And/or if the extra tuning for the meth is just piggy backed onto the existing calibration enough such that you'd be back to the previous level (though I assume not)...

I also know there are systems that allow multiple calibrations (read: $$$$).
 
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Awesome! Thanks for the answers. You'll definitely see my car this winter after I wear out some tires. I'm thinking heads/cam/F1 procharger swap :D

So to confirm, you could decide to intentionally run without meth thus accepting the pulled timing and accompaning loss of power if you wanted to? ie. the programmed/sensed data changes compensate effectively enough to keep things together/totally safe?

Or, it's OK to run without meth but not suggestable?

No-you definitely do not want to run the car on purpose without the meth. The meth adds fuel-one full point of it. So if you put it on a car that was tuned without meth and the AFR was dialed in to 11.1-when the meth is added the AFR will drop down to 10.1

So you have to retune the target AFR to get the tune back to 11.1-basically pull out fuel to compensate for the meth.

So in the case the meth fails your AFR will rise to 12.1 but with no timing the car will lose anywhere from 100-150 rwhp by design.

The car in the video makes over 830 rwhp and should run in the 150+mph range. With the timing pulled it lost most of it's power but lived to race another day.
 
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Hey Arun, just to make sure I fully understand. If I have you guys do a meth install and tune for me and I run out of meth, as long as I keep my boost below the starting point of 4.0#, nothing is affect and no timing is pulled right?
 
Makes me want to fill my tank after a 1 year meth-less hiatus. Probably a good home to a friendly community of spiders at this stage :)

To comment on the thread with something more relevant than spiders. Meth is a wonderful thing both as a power adder and to keep things nice and cool up top. I used to keep mine on full blast on track and hot days back in the days when I was using a puny furnace of a supercharger. Really helped and thoroughly recommended.
 
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Hey Arun, just to make sure I fully understand. If I have you guys do a meth install and tune for me and I run out of meth, as long as I keep my boost below the starting point of 4.0#, nothing is affect and no timing is pulled right?

Hi Rob -- I'm sure Arun will see this and give his expertise but I'd say that we should be fine with an empty meth bottle as long as we don't go into boost (above 4#) -- If I understand correctly at 4# and beyond the AFR is upset and the comp will pull timing due to a lean condition and higher IAT temps.

So driving with no meth when none is needed should be fine -- it'll be the same as driving with meth in the bottle and not being used since it's not called for since no boost above 4 #.

Arun is that correct?

Colin.
 
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