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1 BAD 9T9

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Gimli, Manitoba ………..I suspect…..I remember that vividly, used wrong measurement when filling (metric/imperial) and the plane ran out of fuel mid air. Landed on an old unused drag strip……….am I correct?

think plane departed from Montreal…..but this is all based on my recollection…….
 
Gimli, Manitoba ………..I suspect…..I remember that vividly, used wrong measurement when filling (metric/imperial) and the plane ran out of fuel mid air. Landed on an old unused drag strip……….am I correct?

think plane departed from Montreal…..but this is all based on my recollection…….
Well done, you score 95%. The plane had to glide with no power, however two things saved everybody. The pilot had glider experience and the other knew about the old RCAF airport at Gimlii which was closer than Winnipeg. Where you lost your points was that the track was being used that day for a sports car race.
 
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Well done, you score 95%. The plane had to glide with no power, however two things saved everybody. The pilot had glider experience and the other knew about the old RCAF airport at Gimlii which was closer than Winnipeg. Where you lost your points was that the track was being used that day for a sports car race.
Actually he should score 0%. He ran out of gas because he couldn't convert pounds to liters to gallons......The accident was caused by a system wide error with a crew who could not do basic math......
 
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Actually he should score 0%. He ran out of gas because he couldn't convert pounds to liters to gallons......The accident was caused by a system wide error with a crew who could not do basic math......
You do realize converting litres to gallons is metric to imperial right? (Ha ha)
 
You do realize converting litres to gallons is metric to imperial right? (Ha ha)
Large commercial aircraft manage fuel flows by pounds per hour. "X" pounds will give you "X" hours to operate. Fuel is typically purchased in liters (in Canada) or in US gallons everywhere except the UK. Thus the requirement for some basic math, as gallon of Jet A fuel weighs approximately 7 pounds. From there we calculate how many hours flight time based on no wind/headwind/tailwind are forecast plus at least 45 minutes reserve plus fuel to take us to an alternate airport in the event our destination airport is either weathered in or some other calamity strikes forcing us to go elsewhere. A quick calculation rule of thumb is how many pounds required x .5 plus ten percent will get you in the ballpark of how many liters need to be added. 100,000 lbs required =50,0000 liters plus ten percent = 55,000 liters to equal approximately the 100,000 lbs needed. This is the back handed method but it is pretty close.

On this particular day, this AC operated 767 was operating without functioning fuel gauges. There was an exemption in the approved Minimum Equipment List allowing this flight to operate without fuel gauges as long as certain procedures were carried out. One of those procedures was a manual calculation of fuel need to complete the flight plus alternate plus reserves. The crew apparently struggled with the calculation of how many pounds were required and how many liters would be required to comprise the required pounds of fuel. Then they did not take on the required fuel (clearly obvious by the need to glide into Gimli).

The rest of the story is well documented.
 
Large commercial aircraft manage fuel flows by pounds per hour. "X" pounds will give you "X" hours to operate. Fuel is typically purchased in liters (in Canada) or in US gallons everywhere except the UK. Thus the requirement for some basic math, as gallon of Jet A fuel weighs approximately 7 pounds. From there we calculate how many hours flight time based on no wind/headwind/tailwind are forecast plus at least 45 minutes reserve plus fuel to take us to an alternate airport in the event our destination airport is either weathered in or some other calamity strikes forcing us to go elsewhere. A quick calculation rule of thumb is how many pounds required x .5 plus ten percent will get you in the ballpark of how many liters need to be added. 100,000 lbs required =50,0000 liters plus ten percent = 55,000 liters to equal approximately the 100,000 lbs needed. This is the back handed method but it is pretty close.

On this particular day, this AC operated 767 was operating without functioning fuel gauges. There was an exemption in the approved Minimum Equipment List allowing this flight to operate without fuel gauges as long as certain procedures were carried out. One of those procedures was a manual calculation of fuel need to complete the flight plus alternate plus reserves. The crew apparently struggled with the calculation of how many pounds were required and how many liters would be required to comprise the required pounds of fuel. Then they did not take on the required fuel (clearly obvious by the need to glide into Gimli).

The rest of the story is well documented.
You are absolutely correct with your root cause analysis but the point I was trying to make was that if the two pilots had not had that previous glider and airport experience, then regular pilots would not have made it to Winnipeg and we would have had a major accident. (LOL)
 
You are absolutely correct with your root cause analysis but the point I was trying to make was that if the two pilots had not had that previous glider and airport experience, then regular pilots would not have made it to Winnipeg and we would have had a major accident. (LOL)
Oh I absolutely agree that they were not “regular” pilots…Regular pilots ensure adequate fuel to destination. Then the extraordinary skill of hanging on to a 767 without power would not have been required.
 
Oh I absolutely agree that they were not “regular” pilots…Regular pilots ensure adequate fuel to destination. Then the extraordinary skill of hanging on to a 767 without power would not have been required.
I believe you are sidestepping the discussion point but I will now concede and ask for a truce to stop this verbal wrangling! lol
 
A superior pilot is one who uses their superior judgement to stay out of situations requiring the use their superior skills.

Maybe my attitude is a bit different than others after a 30 year unblemished career as a professional aviator. The heroes are those guys and gals who drag home their airplanes everyday without incident.

My apology however, this issue hits a nerve with myself.
 
A superior pilot is one who uses their superior judgement to stay out of situations requiring the use their superior skills.

Maybe my attitude is a bit different than others after a 30 year unblemished career as a professional aviator. The heroes are those guys and gals who drag home their airplanes everyday without incident.

My apology however, this issue hits a nerve with myself.
So me, always having a life long passion for airplanes are you able to share some details seeing that you are in the know……..

1). The Gimli glider episode, recognizing that this was pilot blunder,
would you happen to know the fate of the pilot and first officer?
2). What airline and type of aircraft did you fly?
 

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